DITW 14-3: The Good Of Evil
Added 2024-04-02 16:34:16 +0000 UTCJosh pulled away again and this time she didn’t seize him or hold him back. He wasn’t angry, he was exhausted, enervated. He sat up, looking away from her. “Kimmy, I . . . I don’t want to live a life like this where I can have a conversation like this one. I can’t believe I’m sitting in my bed with my wife and my wife is assuring me the baby that’s growing inside her is mine. This conversation should never happen. It shouldn’t happen to anyone. That’s the whole point of getting married.” He hung his head and sighed. She couldn’t think yet how to console him. How to assure him she loved him. Thoughts of sharing her video of Devlin diminished. Thoughts of the two of them snuggling up and laughing at Devlin together, of Josh getting aroused by what he saw, of them making love all night, were fading fast. And that was only the first step in revealing to Josh what she’d done. It scared her to sense that wedge between them again, that dividing force.
She said, “I know you love me—”
“Yeah, I know.”
“No,” she said, “I know you love me, but I know you can love me more. I know how I can show you how I love you.”
“What about what’s happened? You want to pretend it didn’t.”
“I don’t. I confessed, Josh. I told you what I did. I want you to see how I might think—”
“That what I liked it? That I wanted it?”
“If you’re here with me now it’s because you’re not sure if you didn’t like it.” This time she met his gaze and held it and Josh didn’t look away. She kept the connection until Josh wavered, doubts flitting at him, getting him blinking as if he stood on the threshold of a bat cave at dusk. At last he looked away.
She said, “And I know you tell yourself that you never wanted it, that the wanting of it is a function of manipulation. That Devlin did it, or that Amy did it. I know I did it. I did it only because I hoped if you liked it even a little it would save me in your eyes.”
She waited, watched Josh’s eyes travel the bed space between them until finding their way to her again.
He said, “That sounds pretty honest.”
“That’s honest. I want you to like it because then I’m not the devil.”
Josh stared at her, thinking. But he didn’t absolve her of her own condemnation. Didn’t babble in effusive amelioration how she wasn’t the devil. The reflection of her badness in her husband’s reaction tightened her chest. Residual angst, abhorrence of harming another, general proclivities of moral goodness held so much of her past in place. Wickedness had liberated her from fear and from harm and shown her success and mastery over others she would have shrunk from in another life. Josh was the damper and the foil. Without Josh would there be a limit to her wickedness? And without Josh would there be wickedness’s thrill at all?
“You’re the reason I want to do anything, Josh. You’re the man I want in my life. You’re the man I want in my bed. You’re the man I want to be the father of my baby.”
Josh’s features quivered and he hung his head again. She feared he would cry but he didn’t. He stayed in the posture of mortal pain for a long time. She said, “I hope that means even something little to you.”
He looked up, eyes wet. “It does. It means everything. . . . I don’t know what you want, Kimmy. I’m not going to throw my arms around you and everything’s fixed. I want what you’re saying. I want it with every part of my being. But it’s not easy. What I watched, how I know . . . How you lied to me. How you betrayed me.”
She ran a hand over her hair, slumping, her own eyes drifting. “I’m terrible,” she said.
“I don’t need you to say anything like that. That’s not why I said it.”
“I’m not going to lie anymore, Josh. I told you that. I am terrible. I did awful things to you. And even though I know they were awful and that they hurt you . . .”
He looked up, seeing her stalling. “What?”
She licked her lower lip. “I enjoyed those things.”
Josh’s soft features pinched tight in disbelief.
“Hear me out,” she said, touching his wrist. “I want you to like it. Okay? I’m being honest. All of it, Josh, all of it—not Devlin, that’s not what I mean. I mean all of the betrayal, the lies, the . . . Fuck. The ascent. It turned me on. I hate that I hurt you, but I want to be honest. I liked it. I still like it. I’ll never hurt you again, but I can’t help how it turned me on.”
Josh’s scowl loosened to something like a silent howl, and she stopped him. “Don’t,” she said, almost like a warning. “Don’t take what I just said and run with it. Don’t take it and use it against me. Don’t say anything. Think about it and don’t say anything, Not now at least. I handed you a weapon and I know you want to hit me over the head with it as hard as you can, but please wait for a minute or two.”
Josh hid his face in his hands and turned away.
“I didn’t want to trick you into liking what I did. I wanted to lure it out of you because I hoped it was there. If it’s not there, Josh, it’s not there. And if it’s not there, I’m horrified how it must hurt.”
He said, “And now you might be carrying Devlin Stone’s baby.”
Calm and collected, she said, “I asked you not to hit me with it.”
“I’m just supposed to take it,” he said, dropping his hands to his lap and looking out the apartment window.
“If you’d look in my eyes I could tell you everything you’d ever want to hear. I would tell you that not only do I love you, I will love you forever. I will make you the happiest man. I will make you a father. I will buy us a house. I will make our dreams real. I will crush your enemies. I will destroy anyone you ask me to. I know in my heart that I am everything you ever wanted.”
Josh chuckled once, still not looking at her, but hearing her claims and laughing at their face value. In time Josh would see those words weren’t empty and that he would reap the benefits of her devotion.
He quarter turned, saying, “I don’t want you to destroy anyone. I want you to be mine. My faithful wife. My partner. I don’t need you to say frightening things.”
“It’s too late for me to be faithful. Can you love me the way you did before?”
Josh said, “That’s up to you.”
And for that she had no comeback. There were no more vengeful claims to be made, no more promises, no more enticing whispers of lust and lechery.
Josh said, “I’m going to get up now and I want to leave but I know you’ll say I’m fleeing and that I’m a coward.”
“I won’t say that. But you could stay. You could stay and we could eat dumplings and we could watch TV and we could have sex again.”
Josh stilled and didn’t get up. She thought he might stay. Eyes looking away, he said, “You went on the pill so you could have sex with Devlin. Is that right?”
She hesitated, biting her cheek. “Yes.”
“It’s not so easy, Kimmy. Not so easy to submit to the things you can do for me, the ways you can remind me of when things were better. Everything weighs on me. I don’t think we can be the same.”
She nodded once, feeling the bitter bile of anger. She said, “Can we be different?”
Josh nodded.
She said, “Maybe we can be close to the way it was, but a little different. Where I’m sorry for the things I’ve done and you’ve forgiven me and we’re almost the same.”
Josh nodded again. “We could do that. I would like that.”
She exhaled, surprised by the trembling of her breath. Hearing that relief conjured wet to her eyes and she sniffled. And now she worried Josh would think her emotional relief was an act. She bit it back and gritted her teeth.
“I don’t want you to leave. I want you to stay with me.”
“I want to stay,” he said. “But it’s easy to stay.”
“It’s easier to run away,” she said. “I felt it, too, how easy it would be. I stayed and I’m fighting for you even though I ruined everything and it would be so easy to let it all sift through my fingers, let it all go away and blame everyone else. I can blame me, Josh. I can blame me and I can prove that I know I fucked up and I know I hurt you and I can humiliate myself through any ritual you want.”
“That’s not true.”
She shook her head. “No. You wouldn’t make me do it. I can say it because you’re too kind to humiliate me.”
“It’s not kindness. Your humiliation would be my own. I’m the man who failed you. I’m the man who lost you. I’m the one who couldn’t satisfy you, I’m the one you cheated on and lied to and manipulated. That’s the reason I wouldn’t do it.”
She was the one covering her face now, breathing into her hands.
He said, “What would you father say? Your sister?”
“Don’t, Josh,” she whispered.
“I wouldn’t. I wouldn’t do that to you. I wouldn’t hurt you like that. I hated saying it now. But it felt good to remind you.”
“You could crush me. If you did that you could crush me.”
“I wouldn’t do that, Kimmy.”
She smoothed back her hair, leaned to the side table and plucked up a tissue and held it to her eyes then wiped her nose. “It’s late,” she said. “You’re not going to a hotel and you’re not going to Meyer’s or wherever. Stay here. I can sleep on the couch.”
“And tomorrow?”
She shrugged a shoulder. “That’s up to you.”
He said, “Tomorrow you go to work for Devlin.”
Her lips slimmed. “I do.”
“And you’ll turn your phone off at lunch time again.”
Her scalp prickled and a shiver ran up her back. She said, “Don’t ask me about that.”
He stared at her for a long while then said, “I guess I don’t have to.”
She shook her head side to side, staring away and thinking of Devlin today and his thick cock in her hand and how hard Josh would get if he could embrace the worst of himself and of her. “I’m not ready to explain it,” she said. “But it was for you.”
“You went to Devlin’s. Correct?”
She looked in his eyes. “I told you I’m not ready to tell you, but please consider how you might not be ready to hear it, either.”
“More wickedness,” he lamented, voice low and admonishing.
She said. “Yes. I’m the wickedest.”
Josh chuckled, taking the opportunity to retreat. She wanted to scold him, point out his cowardice and how he used her sins as his own virtue. But she bit her tongue and let him rise from the bed.
He said, “I’ll sleep on the couch, you can take the bed.”
Comments
Pete... I just thought it was a routine 'How would you like it if I broke your toys' rhetorical device... making Kimmy's almost panicked reaction so much more telling in its impact, but I see your point of view as valid. I think Josh is upset but 'I' don't think he would brandish such a mean-spirited threat in earnest.
Bill F Protagoras
2024-05-12 18:21:26 +0000 UTCI do not know how polite is to suggest other readings in KT place but I must say that the more you read other authors, the more you are going to appreciate KT. In this statment I can base an excuse to recommend Thomas Roberts. He has thousand books with all the variants of cuckolding. Some are very good and some rather rutine. I remember the one of the stripper wife as a good one and I enjoyed those where the boss of they guy seduces the wife and all the office knows. What I do not like of Roberts is his sudden happy ends. I do not like happy ends in literature but in this kind even less. So keep with KT.
Rocambole50
2024-04-05 21:52:07 +0000 UTCI think Kimmy screwing Devlin is no go for Josh! He doesn’t even want her to work with him. But you’re right! I don’t think she’s trying to destroy Devlin! At no point in that video she made is proof of her destroying Devlin! Just her getting off! I bet she’s trying to right the ship after Devlin ruined it. Trying to bring all three of them together again. So once again she’s lying to Josh about ruining Devlin and wanting to get back together with him. I wonder if Josh is only in it for the unborn kid and his memory’s of pre-Devlin Kimmy! Maybe he will wake up after this conversation. I think if he went on a date with someone else it would make Kimmy crazy and maybe wake her up!
Andrew Mellein
2024-04-05 00:05:01 +0000 UTC"Wickedness had liberated her from fear and from harm and shown her success and mastery over others she would have shrunk from in another life. Josh was the damper and the foil. Without Josh would there be a limit to her wickedness? And without Josh would there be wickedness’s thrill at all?" Kimmy's reverie serves to remind us, that Devlin may be "evil" through his name, his exploitation, sociopathic tendencies and narcissism, that she like Milton's demons was a rebel against moralizing despotism! She was brought up in Christianity, and Devlin in privilege. To Devlin the Eye of a Needle is just another thing he can stretch open and out of shape with the unearned wealth of an inherited piston of a dick! Bully for him!
Bill F Protagoras
2024-04-04 20:35:02 +0000 UTCHe took the couch for it's convenience if he wants to leave early... I don't think he is a coward, but the way things still stand between him and wicked wifey he's no mug!
Bill F Protagoras
2024-04-04 11:21:04 +0000 UTCShe not Kimmy’s but close!
Tim ziegler
2024-04-04 00:51:08 +0000 UTCThe title of this chapter's complexity should lead to caution in interpreting its content... but people seem to simply see it as a sign of something new... as a number would serve that purpose just as well... I will look for intentionality or seek method to your madness AND Kimmy's... If I am in doubt about anything I will ask.
Bill F Protagoras
2024-04-03 14:44:38 +0000 UTCMy sentiments entirely, Chris. Annie's Affair revived my interest in # post-pornism...
Bill F Protagoras
2024-04-03 14:20:29 +0000 UTCYes, I too have noticed Devlin is getting a free pass once more... Except from Kimmy one hopes... Of course, doubtless soon there will be hints about her lack of (Christian) forgiveness towards him. Naturally, I'm not implying that would be paradoxical.
Bill F Protagoras
2024-04-03 14:16:08 +0000 UTCAdmitting she is turning into an ersatz Devlin... might be the beginning of realization... it would be a good start if she were able to recognize her own wrong doing as reflected in a despised other...
Bill F Protagoras
2024-04-03 14:07:13 +0000 UTCWell, IF Kimmy is afraid of what her family will think of her it wouldn't be illogical to infer she feels ashamed of her behaviour. On the other hand wouldn't it be despicable to accuse Josh of cowardice when she is isolating herself from adverse criticism. UNLESS she has some other motive for doing it , of course...
Bill F Protagoras
2024-04-03 14:01:18 +0000 UTCOr SHE knows it will take time to re-establish trustworthiness... The only bad we hear is her controlling herself... so by all means lets leap to conclusions.
Bill F Protagoras
2024-04-03 13:51:46 +0000 UTC"We are all in the gutter..." Oscar Wilde.
Bill F Protagoras
2024-04-03 12:44:53 +0000 UTCAnd lest we forget the pain of our mistakes... His Shakes! "But I am bound upon a wheel of fire, That mine own tears do scald like molten lead"
Bill F Protagoras
2024-04-03 12:38:21 +0000 UTCEvery Night & every Morn Some to Misery are Born Every Morn and every Night Some are Born to sweet delight Some are Born to sweet delight Some are Born to Endless Night We are led to Believe a Lie When we see not Thro the Eye Which was Born in a Night to perish in a Night from Auguries of Innocence by William Blake.
Bill F Protagoras
2024-04-03 12:17:24 +0000 UTCTo see a World in a Grain of Sand And a Heaven in a Wild Flower Hold Infinity in the palm of your hand And Eternity in an hour A Robin Red breast in a Cage Puts all Heaven in a Rage from Auguries of Innocence by William Blake.
Bill F Protagoras
2024-04-03 12:08:44 +0000 UTCThe Tyger BY WILLIAM BLAKE Tyger Tyger, burning bright, In the forests of the night; What immortal hand or eye, Could frame thy fearful symmetry? In what distant deeps or skies. Burnt the fire of thine eyes? On what wings dare he aspire? What the hand, dare seize the fire? And what shoulder, & what art, Could twist the sinews of thy heart? And when thy heart began to beat. What dread hand? & what dread feet? What the hammer? what the chain, In what furnace was thy brain? What the anvil? what dread grasp. Dare its deadly terrors clasp? When the stars threw down their spears And water'd heaven with their tears: Did he smile his work to see? Did he who made the Lamb make thee? Tyger Tyger burning bright, In the forests of the night: What immortal hand or eye, Dare frame thy fearful symmetry? This is another epic theme of this, KT's epic work...
Bill F Protagoras
2024-04-03 12:07:58 +0000 UTCGenre is an arbitrary cage to try and fit a tyger in, Hamlet is a whodunnit... and it appears Devil in the Waters is an epic Mouse Trap though that is flattering Ms Christie...
Bill F Protagoras
2024-04-03 11:45:17 +0000 UTCI had to think about this overnight becauae it was so thought provoking. When I initially read this, I took it as a question of "Can you forgive me for no longer being faithful and put aside your anger to love me the way you did before?" As in completely and almost irrationally, allowing him to overlook and excuse the obvious. But rereading it a second time, I came more to the conclusion others here I think have already pointed out. The ship of her faithfulness has sailed. She's not going back because she doesn't want to. That's why she admitted those hard truths of enjoying being wicked, enjoying doing things that she knew hurt him. So she's admitting that she's no longer interested in being that faithful wife he wants, can he love this version of her with the same intensity that he loved the faithful version of her. And I think Josh's response shows exactly where he's at. He wants to, but right now he can't. It's up to her to find a way to mend that hurt in a way that allows Josh to feel that level of love again. I feel like he's telling her what he wanted. What he would have preferred if they could go back and do it again. But, his statements also show a willingness to move forward because, wicked as she is, he still wants her in his life, but he's not willing to give her everything she wants, free of charge. She has to find somewhere in the middle where Josh gets something he wants for giving Kimmy what she wants. You want to be an unfaithful wife who wallows in depravity and want my consent and help to do so? I need something in return. Of course, Josh isn't really spelling out what that something is. Kimmy has a plan on what she thinks she wants to give him that will make up for this, I just don't know if Josh will accept it. He keeps saying what Kimmy appears to want to give isn't what he wants. Which is why Josh brings up where she was at for lunch and clearly finds her explanation unsatisfactory. We'll see. I agree with some others that I'm starting to think her plan doesn't involve destroying Devlin and removing him from their lives, but instead putting him under "their" thumb. That way Josh gets to bully his bully and she gets to have Devlin sex whenever she wants. I think to her, that's the perfect ending. But is it Josh's?
L_S87
2024-04-03 11:17:29 +0000 UTCThere are 8 books in total in the Fall from Grace series by Pete Andrew’s. Completed the series, first 5-6 books were pretty good but tailed off in the last 2-3.
NJ10
2024-04-03 04:50:30 +0000 UTCIf not Devlin... who? And why secretly when he needs those he submits to be aware he is dominant? Where did the authority to put his cuckold cock in a cage come from? Who killed cock robin? All rhetorical questions... Isn't it obviously the scenario the arrogant prick would imagine the Waters submitting to... A 'bedroom drama' he believes he controls but is in truth addicted to... A world small enough for him to indulge the enormity of his petty needy ego... the more it is repeated the more it might resemble or dissemble truth! Just a compelling theory for now... The way his facade crumbled when things didn't go his way, and his incredulity when people can't see that 'he is right'!
Bill F Protagoras
2024-04-03 04:25:05 +0000 UTCAnother great series is The Affair by Andrea Martin. Told from the women's pov, there are 5 books. Very good.
Chris K
2024-04-03 04:22:18 +0000 UTCAndrew, aren't there like six parts to that series now? (Fall from Grace)
Chris K
2024-04-03 04:14:54 +0000 UTCAnnie's affair is awesome! Read it over the weekend. One of my favorites.
Chris K
2024-04-03 04:13:39 +0000 UTCSpeaking of Rumble Devlin's friend. It's mentioned Rumble is getting a divorce. I don t think it will brought up but I always assumed Devlin was the cause of it and he secretly cuckold Rumble with his wife behind his back! Devlin is a slimeball it would make perfect sense to cuckold his friend.
Andrew Mellein
2024-04-03 02:49:06 +0000 UTCI've read some of his stories, but stopped a while ago. Just one readers dumb opinion, I found they often really just kept hitting the same plot points over and over again, and the endings were rushed (and honestly often came out of nowhere with little groundwork to make them actually believable). I do know he mentioned he was a KT fan at one point (think it's a he). Not sure If I'm thinking of the same story you are, there is a point where the cuck (Mike) is so exhausted with the game and the lies that go with it, that he tells the wife to do what she wants and just leave him out of it until she gets it out of her system. Which in a roundabout way, is kind of where Josh lands at this chapter. He knows Kimmy is still fucking around with Devlin, but there's something of a unspoken agreement they won't talk about it until they're both ready to address it. As for other authors, it depends on what you're looking for. There are a lot of authors on Amazon who do pretty good versions of the classic cuckold genre. Most of them hit on similar themes, there was a different one I liked called "Annie's Affair" by Kenny Wright and Kristen McCurran (2 well known Amazon cuckold authors). Its about a husband who discovers through reading her diary that his wife is having an affair with a younger colleague, and also discovers it turns it him on and makes him remember what he loves about her. Then the story becomes him trying to secretly observe their encounters, what happens when the wife finds out he knows and how they move forward. It was a more inventive twist in that the wife was actively cheating for to satisfy her own needs, without any idea the husband could be into it. So some similar themes to this story.
JL23
2024-04-03 02:15:22 +0000 UTCHas anyone read “Faithful Wife’s Fall From Grace” by Pete Andrew’s? It’s very much a cheating wife/cuckold novel series with a happy ending! I read it over the weekend and it has similar themes to DITW. I think KTs writing is superior but it scratched my itch waiting for the next chapter! Anyone know any good cheating wife erotic novel series?
Andrew Mellein
2024-04-03 01:07:26 +0000 UTCAnd Jonny Rumble.
Bill F Protagoras
2024-04-03 01:04:33 +0000 UTCCertainly Chekhov would approve...
Bill F Protagoras
2024-04-03 00:51:09 +0000 UTCPete, I would add one item to your second list: the world cuts a lot of slack for a pretty woman and now, Kimmy knows it; she wants her due, in all respects. According to KT, and remember, she is the only one here who knows what Kimmy really looks like, Kimmy is tall, slim, with wonderfully shapely, firm tits, and erect nipples, a round tush almost out of keeping with her slim build. She has long legs and feet that Louboutin had in mind when designing the shoes. It is a difficult package to fight, much better to give in. Isn't that the sub-rosa message to Josh?
Donkatsu
2024-04-03 00:49:26 +0000 UTCWe we know she jerked off Devlin! Josh would not be down with that! And it would constitute more cheating on Kimmys part!
Andrew Mellein
2024-04-03 00:39:53 +0000 UTCIt may be that and more, something important is missing in the story of the transformation of Kimmy or a whole lot of somethings...
Bill F Protagoras
2024-04-03 00:36:12 +0000 UTCI have a feeling we are not going to find out until Josh does, so it’ll probably be a while. To really try and figure it out, you’d have to see things exactly how Kimmy views Josh and his kink. Which we know is not exactly how Josh sees his kink. So whatever she did, she was trying to appeal to the Josh she sees, but not the Josh that currently exists. She’s probably wise to withhold it from him (and therefore us) at this point.
JL23
2024-04-03 00:22:37 +0000 UTCI view Kimmy as the Anti- heroine of this piece! Her actions got them to where they are today! She’s no heroine!
Andrew Mellein
2024-04-03 00:20:27 +0000 UTCIs it trauma? Ever since she got Devlins schlong. She’s become a changed woman! Also what about the baby! No way she can live this wicked lifestyle raising an infant! It takes a lot out of you!
Andrew Mellein
2024-04-03 00:18:25 +0000 UTCMaybe she put a chastity cage on Devlin. And the video shows her walking out...and leaving it on him.
Pete
2024-04-03 00:15:49 +0000 UTCI feel like if you get married you are committed to someone! Unless you and your partner agree to what boundaries you want. Kimmy should not have gotten married or at least been truthful with Josh!
Andrew Mellein
2024-04-03 00:12:15 +0000 UTCAnd everyone is forgetting that she did all this with Devlin her husbands bully! Her husband practically begged her that he was not to be trusted and not have an affair with him! Heck she probably still is getting boinked by him for all we know!
Andrew Mellein
2024-04-03 00:10:18 +0000 UTCLongest cliff hanger yet... and still counting!
Bill F Protagoras
2024-04-03 00:10:04 +0000 UTCJL, I think you're spot on. If he can't forgive, then they probably can't stay together. That doesn't make him the villain (I don't think) if he can't forgive her. A lot of men probably couldn't. And it's no shame or failing on his part.
Pete
2024-04-02 23:52:34 +0000 UTCI interpret those actions from Josh as his perception that the only power he has right now is in the threat to hurt Kimmy, even as he knows he never actually could do it. But seeing her realize and react in horror to that fact gives him the slightest temporary satisfaction. Is it childish? Yeah, a bit, certainly. Is he being self-righteous and using her sins against her to feel better about himself (which is where her anger at him is centered)? Is he being cruel? Maybe, I can see people reading it that way. I can also see your point that her “Can you still love me” line is her way of telling Josh that she can’t ever be the faithful/devoted spouse he remembers and longs to get back to. Instead, they can work toward a new definition of love and devotion. I’m just not sure how she can make that work with Josh. Whether you think he’s being stubborn, or self righteous, the bottom line is if you want to be with him (as she still desperately seems to want), you have to at some level deal with the emotions that person is feeling and understand it, rather than trying to trample over it. And yeah, you can say a similar thing about Josh too. If he wants to be with Kimmy, he may need to come to terms with her need to be bad, to feel powerful over others, and not let it effect his belief she does still love and want to be with him. If they want to find a framework they can move forward (and live) with, it’s going to take both of them to give a bit. Again, not sure how I envision them closing that gap, but excited to see how KT writes it (assuming they’re together at the end - which you know what happens when you assume).
JL23
2024-04-02 23:47:26 +0000 UTCbrevity is the soul of wit.
Donkatsu
2024-04-02 23:41:49 +0000 UTCI wonder what the video entails? A rimjob from Kimmy to Devlin? That’s pretty nasty! Maybe to entice Devlin to get the panties on?
Andrew Mellein
2024-04-02 23:29:32 +0000 UTCIt was a great bit of writing precisely not for what they said, but for it's calm tenor and the spaces it left for Kimmy and Josh to breath and stretch in, as Pete hinted. It seemed tactical more than communicative. It was laid back phatic communication at its sneaky best, what politicians call talks about talks except with more substance because the two parties wanted some progress rather than the doldrums Kimmy's albatross had brought them to... I don't agree that Kimmy has nailed her flag to the idea of the supremacy of her vision of the future rather than one that is shared. At least, I hope not... as I can only conceive of love worthy of the name as a shared delusion, not two delusions in tandem... hasn't worked for them up to now. Love is based on faith... trust has to be earned on a day to day basis. That's precisely how Kimmy fucked up... I still want to know what grudge she has against Josh... because it may doom any chance at rapprochement or renewal of cordial relations. Kimmy still shows signs of alienation.
Bill F Protagoras
2024-04-02 23:08:35 +0000 UTCJosh wanted to get the hell out of there in this chapter! I wonder if still wants to be with Kimmy after this? I think he is still there for his baby and the family he wishes he had! I wonder why he doesn’t call Karina up at this point? He must really like his suffering!
Andrew Mellein
2024-04-02 23:07:47 +0000 UTCAh, I understand. Thank you for explaining your perspective.
Glaucon
2024-04-02 23:03:54 +0000 UTCI cannot proclaim myself a expert in what makes a happy cuckold (or open) marriage/relationship, but from those I’ve heard describe it, I feel like trust is often cited at the top of the list of things you need. I see your point, “trust” can mean different things to different people, and some people may be more willing to accept a looser concept of it than others. But in how I’ve heard self-described successful couples explain it, they go in together with open eyes (or at least get to that point), and most have “rules” they both abide by and won’t cross. Kimmy is kind of proposing they have that going forward, but then again not really (she’s proposing being honest, she’s not really proposing Josh being an equal partner in determining how far things go), but it doesn’t change the fact that it didn’t start from a place of trust, and the “aggrieved” party may not be as easily swayed to forget that. I think I’ve seen enough of Josh to say, yes he’s turned on by Kimmy cucking him, but he also feels terribly betrayed by how she went about it, and that betrayal impacts every bit of how he feels about things. Kimmy only really wants to focus on that first part, and mash his square peg into her round hole (no sexual pun intended…mostly) and move forward. Maybe that would work with some people, but it’s not working with Josh. And unfortunately for her, the person she needs to convince is Josh.
JL23
2024-04-02 23:00:25 +0000 UTCIn a lot of ways, she's almost like a car salesman. I'll throw in some destruction along with the leather seats and the true coat. Of course, there are many problems with that. On a micro level, I don't think her idea of "destroying" Devlin meshes with what Josh's idea of that would be. She doesn't want to destroy Devlin as much as bend him to their (really her) will. Cause I do think she wants to continue having sex with him, just with her in the power seat (in many ways her vision of things really is the same as Devlin) and she doesn't understand why Josh wouldn't really perceive Devlin as being "destroyed" in that vision. Even if you're mostly honest with him about what everything you're doing. And that brings in the macro problem. When you break someone's trust in you in this profound a way, there are no words or immediate actions that can fix it. It takes time and effort to prove yourself again to that person. And I think she realizes she can't ever do that, cause she doesn't want to change who she's become. She wants Josh to come along, but she doesn't really want to change how she acts. It's why she has no answers when Josh tells her it's up to her to rebuild his trust and love for her...cause she knows she can't. Not in the way he's asking her to.
JL23
2024-04-02 22:40:44 +0000 UTCGlaucon, you may be right that I view the two of them on different scales: Perhaps Kimmy's sadism, and Josh's masochism, do help me make peace more easily with Kimmy's actions that cause Josh pain. I think there's an alignment (of kinks) present there that's absent from the inverse. To me, since Kimmy is NOT a masochist, and Josh not a sadist, when he acts or even suggests cruel things, it surprises me in ways that wouldn't surprise me from Kimmy. When Kimmy acts cruelly, I tend to think 'she's a sadist, she gets off on this.' When Josh acts hurtfully, since it's not a kink of his to be sadistic, and Kimmy does not like to be hurt or humiliated, Josh's actions feel darker. I tend to ascribe the motive of hate or spite; when I wouldn't lean that way for acts done by Kimmy. Also, Josh does only seem to say/do these hurtful things when he's hurt or angry. In contrast, Kimmy does her 'sinful acts' often from a place of delight. So, yeah, to me, cruel actions bourne of anger/hurt often feel hateful or spiteful.
Pete
2024-04-02 22:31:42 +0000 UTC“Kimmy, I . . . I don’t want to live a life like this where I can have a conversation like this one. I can’t believe I’m sitting in my bed with my wife and my wife is assuring me the baby that’s growing inside her is mine. This conversation should never happen. It shouldn’t happen to anyone. That’s the whole point of getting married.” OK, KT, you've convinced me Josh can be a irredeemable prig when he feels like!
Bill F Protagoras
2024-04-02 21:39:10 +0000 UTCAnd Josh... this, see quote above, must be how she used to talk to you when she wasn't weaving stately pleasure dome baskets... wake up, stop feeling sorry for yourself... are you even listening?
Bill F Protagoras
2024-04-02 21:18:27 +0000 UTC“If you’d look in my eyes I could tell you everything you’d ever want to hear. I would tell you that not only do I love you, I will love you forever. I will make you the happiest man. I will make you a father. I will buy us a house. I will make our dreams real. I will crush your enemies. I will destroy anyone you ask me to. I know in my heart that I am everything you ever wanted.” Here she is the pantomime villain... she doesn't sound manic at all... she just woke up one day and thought of her own free will... I'm fed up with being a goody miss two shoes... I'm going to change my personality... and live in toppsy turvy land... and while I'm at it I'm going on that new all you can fuck anything ithyphallic diet that all my nympho colleagues used to talk about when I was a do-gooder mousey penny-pinching lawyer... Obviously fucking her boss in front of her hubby had no adverse effects on her at all! Or perhaps she woke up in hell one day!
Bill F Protagoras
2024-04-02 21:14:53 +0000 UTCIt's interesting to me that new Kimmy's big idea to demonstrate her love to Josh is to hurt someone for him. I think it reveals a lot about her character development.
Glaucon
2024-04-02 20:53:30 +0000 UTCBeautiful reversal KT.
Bill F Protagoras
2024-04-02 20:26:22 +0000 UTCI think she understands what she wants, what's she asking Josh to submit to, is wicked and wrong, but as she said in a previous chapter, it's only wrong if you're a "normal" person with a "normal" mind and beholden to moral "norms." She no longer feels beholden to those norms, and by extension she feels Josh should no longer be as well. Of course we see a flaw in that thinking in this chapter, when Josh brings up the idea of him telling her father or sister. She recoils at even the thought they'd find out, but if you're no longer beholden to the moral code of "normal" people, why should it bother you if they know? Obviously, Josh is never going to say anything to them, but if I was him, I would have noted that little contradiction in her logic.
JL23
2024-04-02 20:25:02 +0000 UTCThank you, Pete. It is bizarre we are debating hypocritical Victorian sexual mores in an age where the greatest god is Mammon and the richest most powerful people in the world are happy to turn a blind eye to the hecatomb they are creating of the meek, the poor and the innocent (and coincidently the world) just so they can feel good. Let's blame the exploited! Also everybody is pretending that they never lie cheat or hurt others. The golden rule is that we treat others as we wish to be treated. Let him who is without sin cast the first stone... Of all the sinners in this story why pick on Kimmy... even when she is painstakingly seeking redemption. Beware the green eyed monster which doth mock the meat it feeds on.
Bill F Protagoras
2024-04-02 20:20:16 +0000 UTCBy the comment on her family, I believe Josh had no intention of telling, more like a test. She controls everything in their marriage now (that's what she wants), but she can't control everything, like how others see her version of the world. It was a test of strength. She's not willing to show the whole world who she is now. Just some. And only if she controls their view. Just like Devlin with his dad?
Chris K
2024-04-02 20:18:26 +0000 UTCWhen we talk about trust in a marriage we are talking about trusting someone not to hurt us. I think the trust we are talking about is more like in your section about “Not to harm the other, not to abandon the other, not to gamble or spend big money without discussing it.” Harm can be emotional harm, and that's the subject of this story. Most mafia stories do not depict those same marriages as particularly happy. I struggle to think of one that does. Having sex with someone else in an open marriage is not a breach of trust, that’s the whole point of the marriage being open.
Glaucon
2024-04-02 19:57:37 +0000 UTCCSH - That's what Kimmy wants from him, but it's hard to say what the reality is. Josh does seem to want a way back, but he's also the one insisting on sleeping on the couch and is also the one pointing out how horrible it would be for Kimmy if her family found out about her actions. I think there's a path there, but Josh has been pretty adamant he needs to see something from Kimmy that isn't simply "I know what's best for you. Do what I say." Kimmy clearly has a plan with Devlin beyond what is obvious based on her saying she's not ready to tell Josh, but it's for him. So Kimmy obviously has a plan for those actions you reference. We'll have to see how Josh reacts to them. The common theme here, though, has clearly been for the last two books that Josh hates the fact she betrayed him. He brings it up, over and over. I'm not sure how Kimmy's plan circumvents that.
L_S87
2024-04-02 19:55:56 +0000 UTCIt's unclear what exactly they are suggesting when they're discussing what would hypothetically be said to Kimmy's family. It could be as simple as "Kimmy was unfaithful in the marriage and they're working on it" which is the kind of thing family members learn all the time. When you think about that act as hateful or shocking, do you feel the same way about Kimmy who literally did the thing already to a member of Josh's extended family (and a heavily doctored version mind you), without discussing it beforehand with him?
Glaucon
2024-04-02 19:50:05 +0000 UTCOne other thing. These understandings are not usually conscious, spoken agreements. They are negotiated with practice and experience over time till both partners know where the redlines are. Usually they discover those lines by crossing them.
CSH
2024-04-02 19:37:00 +0000 UTCShe is using wickedness correctly, she is using language correctly, she is using language the way I do, she is attempting to communicate something new to Josh. When you say "Kimmy's inner monologue uses "wickedness" as a fun little euphemism for hurting people that doesn't make her sound so bad to herself." you actually know that this is a common usage of the word it is not a "euphemism" it is a shade of meaning. "Collateral damage" is a euphemism, wicked is a thoroughly tamed word, probably because of the neutering of fairy tales. Wickedness is commonly used in association with sex to defuse antiquated ideas of "morality." Kimmy is trying to explain colour to Josh who she has recently caused to see things in terms of black and white. Josh is obviously in need of correction as his ideas about marriage are wildly inaccurate and unhistorical. Marriage was formalized to stop the chaste church from siphoning off the wealth of the nobility by winning surplus offspring into its holy ranks. And to tie inheritance to primogeniture and sexual reproduction.
Bill F Protagoras
2024-04-02 19:34:56 +0000 UTCYes, i agree. There are various things meant by trust. Where you get problems is when the two parties dont agree on the rules. Kimmy is telling Josh i will cheat on you with Devlin but will tell you the truth when you ask and i will use my cheating to hurt you emotionally because you like it. I think Josh will agree but he cant be honest and say that openly because he cant yet admit it to himself. He also knows hes agreeing to be hurt regularly and be subservient tonhervwishes. Also Kimmy isn’t being completely honest and she is effectively asking Josh to cede control of their relationship to her. Josh is tempted by what she wants, but it is emasculating.
CSH
2024-04-02 19:32:15 +0000 UTCWell said, Andrew! Kimmy has become a remarkable and utterly fascinating character. I can't take my eyes off her. Really, really well crafted.
Pete
2024-04-02 19:30:33 +0000 UTCChris, yeah... Then again, telling something like that to one's parents or siblings seems pretty horrific. That would be an outright hateful act by Josh. I have to say... Sometimes Josh shocks me by what he suggests.
Pete
2024-04-02 19:24:33 +0000 UTCI’m all in on your conclusion. It makes her a truly complex character. Well said.
CSH
2024-04-02 19:19:37 +0000 UTCThis chapter raises a question that I wonder if we're sure we know the answer to: Does a happy marriage require trust? The tenor of our discussions has assumed this as an unquestionable truth. But trust can be nuanced, and have dimensions. In lots of marriages, spouses don't trust their partner in all regards. I may not trust my wife to ask for directions, or clean up after herself. Mafia stories abound with marriages of don't ask/don't tell, where the wife knows not to ask certain questions. Open marriages are plentiful, where spouses don't expect sexual fidelity. Cuckold marriages abound where fidelity is expected of the husband, but not of the wife. Yet in the above examples, others forms of trust may exist in those unions: Not to harm the other, not to abandon the other, not to gamble or spend big money without discussing it. The statement: "A happy marriage/relationship requires trust" is too broad to be true. And the conclusion that infidelity destroys all trust is inaccurate. The mafia wife is lied to every day, directly or by omission. The cuckold's wife is unfaithful every day. He is sexually 'betrayed' daily. Yet both may be happy in their marriages. Neither may care about the lies. They both may continue to trust their partner in other ways.
Pete
2024-04-02 19:15:03 +0000 UTCAlso agree but… let’s see if the bridge and common understanding can be built with actions rather than words. Maybe Josh is more pliant and adaptable than we think. He did come back after all.
CSH
2024-04-02 19:14:53 +0000 UTCTo be fair it’s also the story of a man who discovers he likes his wife to hurt him emotionally.
CSH
2024-04-02 19:10:08 +0000 UTCI like 2 though. Just own it.
Chris K
2024-04-02 19:01:33 +0000 UTC5 seems like a stretch. Even when she's showing a likeable quality, it's because she's covering something bad already done. And being bold and brave with Josh is easy for her, until the mention of her father and sister and then not so much.
Chris K
2024-04-02 19:00:09 +0000 UTCKimmy basically admits in this chapter she is turning into Devlin! I wouldn't be surprised if she basically stared making fun of and and bullying Josh. Maybe inviting Devlin into her marriage bed with Josh there! She's a sadist!
Andrew Mellein
2024-04-02 18:50:10 +0000 UTCThis is the story of a woman that learns she's an emotional sadist and decides to just start hurting her husband instead of negotiating out a kink space within a bond of trust.
Glaucon
2024-04-02 18:44:46 +0000 UTCI wonder it KT is going to ever write about Josh finally finding out when he unknowingly ate Devlin's creampie out of Kimmy! And then she laughed about it over the phone with Devlin. I actually think it was one of Kimmy's top five worst moments. And it's shows she lied to Josh when she said "We didn't laugh behind your back". She did. I could actually see Josh finally walking out on her over that! It is one of Kimmy's wickedest evil moments
Andrew Mellein
2024-04-02 18:38:45 +0000 UTCJosh: "I want you to be mine. My faithful wife." Kimmy: "It's too late for me to be faithful. Can you love me the way you did before?" Emerson wrote: "The mind, once stretched by a new idea, never returns to its original dimensions." There are at least two ways to read those words from Kimmy. 1. Kimmy is being pedantic, pointing out that she can technically no longer be considered "faithful." ; OR 2. Kimmy could be telling Josh, point-blank, that she is no longer a faithful woman. And asking him, 'Can you love me anyway?' I like Door Number 2, for several reasons: 1. Kimmy HAS acknowledged to herself, and directly to Josh, that she enjoyed lying to him and cheating on him. It makes sense that she would enjoy it again. 2. Kimmy has been facing hard truths about herself. This is one of them: She isn't a faithful woman. And maybe, she's not interested in becoming one. 3. She's angry at Josh in this scene. She's tired of his 'cowardice,' and how he "uses her sins as his own virtue." 4. It's courageous. And it's brutally honest. She's tired of being called a liar, and she hates how cowardly Josh can be. This is both honest and brave. 5. From a Meta perspective, it arguably makes Kimmy more nuanced. We admire honesty and courage. It's easy for readers to hate Kimmy for her prior misdeeds. But, even in RL, none of us are one dimensional. Kimmy DOES have many redeeming, likable traits. By bringing to the forefront here Kimmy's boldness, brashness, strength, courage, and/or bad assery, it adds more layers to her. 6. It's VERY wicked. 'Josh, I liked lying and cheating on you, I'm not gonna stop, AND I want you to love me for it.' Oooooo, talk about wicked! Shameless. Unapologetic. Everything a good wife shouldn't be. Right? Talk about a villain!!!
Pete
2024-04-02 18:37:43 +0000 UTCThis is a great synopsis, JL. They're standing across a gulf, both want to build a bridge back across it, but they both fundamentally disagree on the construction method. Kimmy says she accepts the gulf was created by her, but insists that the bridge across be built on Josh's back rather than her own.
L_S87
2024-04-02 18:25:57 +0000 UTC"She wanted to scold him, point out his cowardice and how he used her sins as his own virtue. But she bit her tongue and let him rise from the bed." Everything she said in this chapter was flushed with this thought. She thinks he needs to be scolded for what? Her getting caught and having a hard time dealing with it? Poor Kimmy I guess...
Chris K
2024-04-02 18:24:05 +0000 UTCI wonder where this story is going? It feels like it's coming to some form of closure. I wonder if Kimmy is going to have sex with Devlin again? Judging from this chapter she has no will to do it. But KImmy admits she loves being bad!
Andrew Mellein
2024-04-02 18:23:15 +0000 UTCThis made me actually LOL. If one could condense the masterpiece of writing KT gave us in this chapter, hundreds of words into two sentences... This is what it boils down to. I'm evil, stop being a coward and admit that you love me being evil. Then I can stop incessantly apologizing and we can get this show on the road. Next stop, hell.
L_S87
2024-04-02 18:19:16 +0000 UTCAlso she doesn't want tell him about what she did at Devlin's! Even though she said there would be no more lies between us and they would be honest. What a devoted wife! She's a keeper fellas.
Andrew Mellein
2024-04-02 18:18:43 +0000 UTCI wonder if Hyun is going to spill the beans to someone and then word is going to get out.
Andrew Mellein
2024-04-02 18:15:17 +0000 UTCKimmy I think is KT's best character bar none! She is a riddle wrapped in a mystery inside an enigma. I like how in this chapter she admits she enjoyed everything she did even though she knew it was wrong. Kimmy I think is a classic sadist. She loves Josh's suffering even though she loves Josh. Its a weird dichotomy.
Andrew Mellein
2024-04-02 18:14:06 +0000 UTCCSH has it right. One of the best conversations you've ever written. The level of disingenuous honesty here is kind of amazing. She's telling him SO much truth, enough that an outside observer would want to champion her for it. Yet, there is so much unsaid, so many lies of omission, convenient half truths. She falls on her sword repeatedly, yet does so as a manipulation to show how she laments where they are at. She doesn't regret what she did, only that Josh found out in a way that was hurtful. Her statements aren't platitudes, instead they attempt to blanket her true intentions of wanting Josh's capitulation. Kimmy wants Josh's love as it was before, but wants to be allowed to be the person she is now. She wants utter, blind devotion and acceptance of who she wants to be, and it irks her that Josh refuses that. As is usual for Josh, once the sex is out of the way, it's easier for him to see things clearly. It's Kimmy's main Achilles heel. She can get him to agree to a lot when he's turned on, but he's much more reticent once that's over. You can even see it here. He's willing to admit he still wants a relationship, but he won't cave on it being 100% what she wants. I know some see Josh as already having given up and this is a shoe in for Kimmy, but the amount of pushback he gives at the end speaks to something different to me. He's willing to accept what Kimmy is telling him, but he's not willing to cave and hand everything to her on a silver platter. His definition of almost the same is still different than hers. And that's why he's sleeping on the couch, not giving her what she wants by sleeping in bed together.
L_S87
2024-04-02 18:12:38 +0000 UTC100%. Also I'd like to note how Kimmy's inner monologue uses "wickedness" as a fun little euphemism for hurting people that doesn't make her sound so bad to herself.
Glaucon
2024-04-02 18:06:19 +0000 UTCJeez! Another great chapter KT! I think your dialogue and character building is the best in erotic literature! I wonder where this story is heading next? It feels like it's winding down. Judging from this conversation it seems like Kimmy has no desire to cheat on Josh again with Devlin. Even though she admits she likes being bad. I guess Amy, Hyun, and the baby are still up in the air. But it feels like it's starting to get to some form of closure. Josh I think still wants to be with Kimmy but I don't know if he's going to handle Kimmy being bad.
Andrew Mellein
2024-04-02 18:06:19 +0000 UTCOn the one hand, this was the most they've ever attempted to actually talk through things, which was good. However I found the chapter incredibly sad in that we see two people who both want the same end result, but have totally incompatible visions on how to actually get there and stay there. Kimmy is as honest as I think she's capable of being at this point, but she still wants to lay (IMO) too much of the blame on Josh as to why they can't move on. Josh not accepting his kink, not accepting he wants her to humiliate him, or Josh living in a 1950's vision of marriage and male/female roles is not really the issue. Sure that may be some of it (in so much as it's made Josh feel like they're not partners, that his wife needs things he can't provide), but it's not the crux of the issue. The crux of the issue is the betrayal, and his ability to trust her. This is why she needs Josh to submit to the kink, then she wouldn't have to betray him anymore. At least in her mind, but she can't see why Josh rightly sees this as something he's being conned into, and that in a way, it would still leave mistrust in its wake. At least Kimmy basically finally admits the truth here. She doesn't want this for Josh, she wants this for herself. Maybe some of her own kink is tied up in the fact she believes Josh likes her wickedness, but the bottom line is she likes her wickedness. And the main reason she wants to continue is because she likes it. But she also wants everything else Josh gives her, so her pitch is this grand bargain where she gives Josh his dark desires and any other material thing he could want, in exchange for allowing her to be wicked (and ultimately to humiliate him - sexually at least). But she can't understand the real reason why Josh can't accept it, that's its not really about him being in denial of what turns him on. I'm not sure how they meet in a middle, in a "new normal" so to speak. It just feels like the two visions are so diametrically opposed. One of them has to give in. Or else the marriage is probably over at some point. He didn't leave, so we'll see what progress can be made.
JL23
2024-04-02 17:59:24 +0000 UTCLove this paragraph: "Wickedness had liberated her from fear and from harm and shown her success and mastery over others she would have shrunk from in another life. Josh was the damper and the foil. Without Josh would there be a limit to her wickedness? And without Josh would there be wickedness’s thrill at all?" KT, I did trip a little over the "And" that begins the final sentence; I think because what follows in that sentence seems at least a little in contradiction to the prior sentence. I guess it depends what you intend.
Pete
2024-04-02 17:55:11 +0000 UTCI promise you can trust me, but also it REALLY turns me on when I betray you. We good?
Glaucon
2024-04-02 17:55:03 +0000 UTCThis is what i meant by totally honest and subtly dishonest. Lies of omission and implying the opposite of what is actually true.
CSH
2024-04-02 17:47:03 +0000 UTCIn that second last paragraph she's manipulating him even now, concealing that she doesn't quite accept responsibility for her own actions. Earlier she said she was trying to manipulate him into liking it so that it would hurt him less, but I think it would be more honest of her to say she's doing it so that she can offload her own responsibility/guilt onto him.
Glaucon
2024-04-02 17:35:48 +0000 UTCIsn't she special? From loving, devoted wife to evil manipulative vixen. And not looking to go back anytime soon.
CSH
2024-04-02 17:29:07 +0000 UTCHe wouldn't tell her family because of how it would harm her, "crush her" in her words, but she already told his through Hyun, very recently without any apparent remorse (and a doctored version at that). She still doesn't mention it here, even when she's pretending total honesty.
Glaucon
2024-04-02 17:16:54 +0000 UTCThis is not erotica any more this is a intriguing story with sex! This is tough I'm so emotionally involved with the character's
RCH
2024-04-02 17:04:50 +0000 UTCLayers upon layers of good and evil. One of the best conversations you've ever written in my opinion. Both totally honest and subtly dishonest from both characters. Quite an achievement. Hell I really find Kimmy your best female lead ever as well. I was worried we would get another yelling fit. That event in the hotel room was like a wedding ceremony. Let the new marriage commence.
CSH
2024-04-02 17:03:11 +0000 UTCWhat a great surprise! It made my stomach drop in dread…good dread, though. Lol
Kat
2024-04-02 17:00:32 +0000 UTC