The Sopranos 4x09 Reaction
Added 2025-01-26 00:51:58 +0000 UTCjust no words
Comments
And so ends Ralph Cifaretto. This episode earned Joe Pantoliano an Emmy nomination and it’s easy to understand why. This is Ralph at his most sympathetic and human, and is the episode he dies. As someone else pointed out, multiple lines tie to the song ‘Sympathy for the Devil’ which honestly could have been the title of the episode it’s so fitting. Ambiguity reigns in this episode. Did Tony kill Ralph for Tracee or Pie-O-My or both? Did Ralph burn the stable down or is he actually innocent? Is Junior actually suffering from dementia? All good questions, and as Junior would say, who says there is an answer? Ambiguity and uncertainty are truly central to the shows thesis, and ‘Whoever Did This’ is a core tenet of this. One thing is not up for debate however. Tony killing Ralph here is easily his most impulsive and heedless action yet, the consequences of which remain to be seen, but Chris knows this is not going to go down well. The ending song is a cover of ‘Man With a Harmonica’ from the movie ‘Once Upon a Time in the West’. One of Tony and Ralph’s previous showdowns after Tracee’s death was scored to ‘Ghost Riders in the Sky’, giving the scene a western showdown flavour. Tony may be victorious, but he does not end the episode standing proud like a hero defeating a villain. In the episode with Tracee, Silvio refers to her as a ‘thoroughbred’. In that same episode, Meadows roommate Caitlin talks about going to a horse farm. These small pieces of connective tissue are really impressive to me, and makes this show more an intricate tapestry than just about any other TV show before or since.
Darrach
2025-01-27 16:25:30 +0000 UTCThe fact that LM’s initial conclusion to this was “Ralph killed Tracee and Tony didn’t do a anything but now flips out just over a horse, appaling” was, I’m sorry to say it, kinda disgraceful considering how good they usually are at understanding characters. At this point it’s like they believe Tony is the second coming of Stalin. Of course the other opposite of treating Tony like a saint over him avenging Tracee and Pie’O’My is even worse (I’m looking at you, @Varus).
Gaboxxy
2025-01-27 12:11:21 +0000 UTC@Abacus yes, I don’t understand the need from some people to overanalyze very single little action of Tony and turning it into a negative. “Yeah even though it was smart to call the ambulance it still shows that Tony is somehow subhuman” like wtf 😂
Gaboxxy
2025-01-27 12:06:02 +0000 UTCDiscontinue the lithium.
Mike
2025-01-26 23:35:31 +0000 UTCI mean, all of the guys went through this kind of shit, but it’s true that Chris (in my opinion at least) has a more sensitive side to him than most of the other mobsters and these actions affect him more deeply.
Gaboxxy
2025-01-26 23:12:34 +0000 UTCYou know Varus, it wasn’t long ago I remember you used to wait in the youtube comment section. And as far as I’m concerned YOU SHOULD STILL BE THERE!
Gaboxxy
2025-01-26 23:07:48 +0000 UTCAs I commented under the full reaction, I have no sympathy for Ralph after he killed the stripper in S3. (There was the photo of Tracee late in this episode.) We are all a product of our genetics and environment, and I recognize that some people don't stand much of a chance which is tragic, but in the end, we must protect society from the Ralphs of the world.
Clay F
2025-01-26 20:55:37 +0000 UTCIf not laughing or appreciating animals being tortured is your bar for a good man I feel really bad for you. He treats his own children horribly, Murders, steals, lies, cheats, almost every single thing you can think of besides enjoying animals being tortured. Hitler loved animals and was a vegetarian most of his life. Had very strict punishments for people hurting animals. Would you say Hitler is a better human than most? This logic is so flawed and actually concerning. You saying “he has empathy for children” while constantly watching him psychologically destroy his kids is crazy. The show has spent 4 seasons showing us Tony's psychological complexity, his therapy, his choices, his moral decay, and you reduce it to "he just needs God"? It completely misses the show's examination of morality and psychology.
Cole
2025-01-26 19:52:01 +0000 UTCHe has to be joking
Cole
2025-01-26 19:47:01 +0000 UTC@Varus Oh I have sympathy for animals and children as well. The difference is that I'm also not a thief and a murderer like Tony so that automatically already makes me better than him. I'm also not delusional enough to think that all Tony needs is "God's Holy Spirit" to redeem himself. Sounds like you need a visit to Dr. Krakower.
IanJ
2025-01-26 17:12:36 +0000 UTCCorrection: Most people actually don't have issues with animals and children, because those creatures don't have their own personal identities yet, and so it's easy to appreciate their innocence. I think a person's goodness is measured by how far their compassion extends. (Ex: compassion for even a brainwashed racist). The greater the compassion, the more "good" a person is. Tony is a murderer, and his sphere of compassion is as minimal as it can get. It's simply not zero, and for you that makes him good. I guess our standards for what we define as "good" are simply different.
ODIS
2025-01-26 16:47:44 +0000 UTCNo matter how bad Ralphie was, and he's arguably the worst of all mob guys, ultimately David chase didn't want for people to root for his death. It's not like he was born evil, there are many factors that contributed to him becoming the person he was by the end. Like with everyone else, both on the show and in life, it's usually your environment that shapes who you become.
terrier
2025-01-26 15:00:34 +0000 UTCYou seem like the exact person then would I'm talking about.
Varus
2025-01-26 12:58:31 +0000 UTCWhat a delusional take on just about everything.
IanJ
2025-01-26 12:57:49 +0000 UTCMichael Imperioli took Danny Baldwin to fuckin' acting school
Abacus
2025-01-26 12:13:10 +0000 UTCTo me, it tells a lot about a man on how he treats children and animals. I find that very redeeming and likeable. Everyone's a sinner but I really admire his heart for innocent creatures.
Varus
2025-01-26 10:28:34 +0000 UTC"Better than most humans" is insane. The man is a murderer and thief. He fits basically all of the seven deadly sins. He has a surprising amount of empathy for animals and children but is otherwise pretty horrible.
Munir
2025-01-26 10:26:53 +0000 UTCI couldn't believe this episode made me feel bad for Ralph, who is a contender for the worst person in a show full of bad people.
Munir
2025-01-26 10:20:05 +0000 UTCSome little links in this episode: Ralph's son is injured while fooling around playing at movie fights, the thing which previously Ralph was constantly doing with Gladiator, notably when he injured Georgie at the Bing. His son carried on his behaviour and paid the price. Fits with how when Ralph is having his reckoning he says that God is punishing him for his misdeeds. The stupid thing that he did to others was turned onto his son, and in the same way that he describes the fire that killed Pie-O-My as a "bolt from beyond", his son was struck by an arrow falling from the sky, like he was shot by God himself. Thematically, it's a big difference to being hit by a car, for example. Another thing is how we see Pie-O-My wrapped in a tarp and then dragged away with a chain, and then later Tony uses a chain to wrap Ralph's body. Adding to the other Satanic hints and imagery others have pointed out around Ralph, the goat is unharmed after the fire at the stables. The goat is commonly symbolic of the devil, and its presence is given emphasis at the beginning of the episode when Carmela rather strangely points it out for some reason – "what is that, a goat?". During the fight with Ralph, Tony has oven cleaner sprayed in his face. After this, he keeps washing his face/eyes. I would say this is symbolic of crying/tears, as he isn't really crying for real. Immediately after killing Ralph he washes his face at the kitchen sink so it is wet, as if he was crying. Later when showering we see him focusing the spray directly into his face. This fits ironically with a theme this episode of Ralph being open and honest with his grief with a lot of real tears (drawn attention to when Paulie accuses Ralph of crying "alligator tears").
Abacus
2025-01-26 08:15:09 +0000 UTCTony is a better person than most humans. There are people who laugh at animals suffering or insects tortured. There are people who torture cats alive on telegram or anywhere in world for sick satanic pleasure. Tony is spiritually dead and lacks empathy for humans which is bad, but he simply needs God's Holy Spirit, but he's a unbeliever. Yet he has empathy for innocent animals and children. He's not that much of a horrible person as most humans. He even let's himself get slapped by women, he isn't a horrible person like the cartels in Mexico.
Varus
2025-01-26 08:08:57 +0000 UTCI think too much is made of Tony "stopping" going over to Artie's house as though he didn't have "the human urge to do something". The precise opposite is true. He immediately jumps out of bed and starts getting dressed, before taking a few seconds to stop and think and realises that the rational thing is to phone for an ambulance. He did completely the right thing.
Abacus
2025-01-26 08:07:36 +0000 UTC" I interpret the final scene of this episode as Tony not having anyone else around him, and how he is truly alone now." Which is fitting because he was also alone in being the only one who really gave a shit that Ralphie killed Tracee so it's fitting that he notices the photo alone in this context, after a long night before finally walking out into the day. It's a very layered scene for how little dialogue there is.
Veya
2025-01-26 08:07:21 +0000 UTCNo it simply confirmed that Ralph did it and Tony was going to kill him anyways.
Varus
2025-01-26 07:21:48 +0000 UTCTony will Always be my favorite fictional character for bringing justice for that innocent horse.
Varus
2025-01-26 07:13:30 +0000 UTC"Boys, no fires. Tony doesn't want any fires" - Ralph in 3x02 It was left ambiguous if Ralph did or did not kill the horse, but interestingly David Chase told Joe Pantoliano to play it as if he didn't. We also had the continuation of the "Western" motif of the conflict between Tony and Ralph, in which it was started over a horse, and the music for the credits is a remix of Man with the Harmonica. The original song is from a film called Once Upon a Time in the West. Tony often likens himself to western anti-heroes of old (Gary Cooper, the strong silent type), and probably was expecting to be some sort of hero for killing Ralph, but the end result of their conflict is a messy violent morally-twisted battle royale that ends with Ralph's head in a bowling ball bag. The western tune is altered to be more synthetic, cold and calculating, it's an epic track but is altered from its original western grandeur. It's now something more akin to a spooky murder mystery track. A great metaphor for how warped Tony's sense of morality is. Tracee is also shown in the photo at the end of the episode. Her death has been a driving point between Tony and Ralph's conflict, and while on the surface Tony killed Ralph over the horse, there's also a tinge of his anger towards Tracee's treatment that explodes in their fight (She was a beautiful innocent creature, what does she ever do to you?). If season 1 and season 2 is about Tony's rise to power, season 3 and 4 is about how Tony maintains his power. We saw him made plenty of mistakes already, and Chris pointed this out to him in this episode that his actions won't be taken kindly by the other captains. I interpret the final scene of this episode as Tony not having anyone else around him, and how he is truly alone now.
IanJ
2025-01-26 06:57:06 +0000 UTCYes, I feel like if the hatred for his character wasn't so strong, this would have been clocked by now instead of reducing it to just not feeling emotions. It's the same way he could admit everything wrong about his mother (he calls her miserable, a cunt, old bat etc.) but he literally cannot admit that she tried to physically have him killed or if he does, he coats it with layers of self-blame and justification, because it hits too close to what he does for a living.
Veya
2025-01-26 06:28:20 +0000 UTCNot so much the meat as pointing out how ridiculous it is for Tony to mourn a horse when all they do is hurt people for money. These characters avoid honesty like the plague (euphemisms, denial, justifications), and any time someone tells it like it is, it’s a showstopper.
John Collins
2025-01-26 05:38:48 +0000 UTCIt’s been pretty well established by now that Tony can’t truly care for people given what he does for a living; if he did he’d implode. So he has to bury the fact that his friends/colleagues pimped out, raped, assaulted and ultimately killed Tracee, a young woman who reminded him of his daughter, because in the context of “this thing” that’s fair game. Animals on the other hand are a safer outlet for him, he can feel towards them in a way he can’t towards humans. The horse was the straw that pushed Tony over the edge with Ralphie, but it was about Tracee.
John Collins
2025-01-26 05:29:28 +0000 UTCThe irony how Tony says to Paulie “no one’s killing anybody” then in the same episode does exactly that
Knot
2025-01-26 04:37:07 +0000 UTCThere are parts of this show that are morbidly hilarious. It's so good!
BNJ
2025-01-26 04:29:08 +0000 UTCIn the outro, you guys brought up my favorite underrated aspect of the show. These guys put out so much evil into the world but the karmic payback can come back to them in ways that are ramdom and unpredictable. Richie is plotting against Tony but gets taken out after a fight with Janice. Ralph dies because of the horse (which he may not have even been responsible for), but it could have been for Tracee or the joke about Ginny Sack. The show constantly keeps us guessing. To quote Ralphie: things can happen like "a bolt from beyond."
Marcus Cato
2025-01-26 04:19:55 +0000 UTCStill can’t believe Tony found him like this
Ruben Welsh
2025-01-26 04:18:54 +0000 UTC"You eat beef and sausage by the carload" is a fucking hilarious line 😂
BNJ
2025-01-26 04:13:38 +0000 UTCIn the episode where Artie attempted suicide, you two pointed out that Tony "stopped" when he decided to call the ambulance instead of driving to Artie's home. You discussed how him continuing to go to Artie's house wouldn't have helped anything, but it would have shown the human urge to do something when it's a real feeling. When Ralph's son is injured here, Ralph RUNS. He runs out to him in the yard, then he runs back to the house to call the ambulance. He had all of the urgency and panic that comes with real fear and panic. Whether or not Ralph actually set the fire is one of those age-old questions that people still argue about. Somebody in another comment pointed out that David Chase (Creator) said Ralph did it, but Joe Pantoliano (the actor who played Ralph) said that he played the final scene as Ralph being honest when he denied doing it. For my part, I don't think he did it, because he doesn't want to piss Tony off. I mentioned this in a previous episode comment, but Ralph is very good at Doing Crime, and he doesn't want to fight with Tony. Ever since he floated the idea to Johnny Sack last season and got rejected hard, he's smart enough to realize that he wouldn't win. Ralph can't help but continue being a general asshole and piece of shit, but ever since then he's been a good worker to keep Tony on his side. So I don't think he would try to cause a problem now. Under "the rules", there is absolutely no defense for Tony for what he did here. Unlike when he planned to kill Richie Aprile in season two, Tony doesn't have any legitimate grievance in their society to move against Ralph. Richie was planning to move against Tony, and Tony made an official ruling after consulting with Silvio (his consigliere). So when Janice killed Richie first, Tony could 'officially' get it taken care of by Chris and Furio. If what happened here gets out, even being the Boss won't protect Tony. His own men would be allowed to kill him without retribution, and none of the other Families or Bosses would protest. Hence why Tony brings Chris alone and no other associate. This puts him in a very precarious situation.
JBK405
2025-01-26 03:58:01 +0000 UTCYeah I think it's gotten to a point that LM can't judge these characters objectively because they hate them so much. They're usually spot on with a lot of their character analysis but The Sopranos has really thrown them off their game.
BNJ
2025-01-26 03:46:35 +0000 UTCSeason 4 is amazing, this is where the writing and pacing truly gains its footing. It feels like a 2 hour journey compressed to 55 mins. Next level stuff.
Richard Cowgill
2025-01-26 03:36:43 +0000 UTCi’m sure it’s been said but please do what you can to not check out picture before the episode and also not read the description.. better for us!
Zach D
2025-01-26 03:24:31 +0000 UTCThe final portion of this episode is top-5 TV moments of all time. Absolute masterclass of writing and directing. And another amazing performance + deserved emmy for Joe Pantoliano.
terrier
2025-01-26 03:04:51 +0000 UTC"Nobody had flat-tops back then!" when watching Spartacus. As if he knows from personal experience.
Michael M
2025-01-26 02:23:54 +0000 UTCAhh ok, makes sense. I don't want to rush them, I was just curious.
ODIS
2025-01-26 02:23:16 +0000 UTCI think there's an issue with hating a character so much that some obvious points of humanity gets dismissed or reduced. David Chase didn't want people glorifying them but there seems to be an over-correction as well. Another thing about Ralphie that was dismissed because "well fuck him" is that he showed genuine possibility of changing, it gets cut short because Tony gave in to his impulse (which WAS fueled by one of his few remaining humanity no matter how much you hate the character) but also not presented so heroically even if it's seen as karmic by the audience (which the show wanted to temper a bit with showing how Ralphie's son got harmed).
Veya
2025-01-26 02:22:27 +0000 UTCThe worst ever was Netflix using Gus Fring as a thumbnail before he reappeared in Better Call Saul. You think these companies would learn by now.
Michael M
2025-01-26 02:21:25 +0000 UTCIf I'm reading between the lines correctly, I think the political situaion in Serbia is eating up some time of theirs and they are putting it off. I fully support it.
Michael M
2025-01-26 02:19:36 +0000 UTCAlso: "Were you there when Jesus Christ had his moment of doubt and pain?"
Marcus Cato
2025-01-26 02:19:19 +0000 UTC"She was a whoo-ore / She was a horse"
Michael M
2025-01-26 02:18:14 +0000 UTCRalph mentioning meat was what set Tony off The show has highlighted Tony’s relationship with meat, Satriale’s and the Bing are his because his dad beat the owner. His father cutting Satriale’s finger off was the defining event of his childhood and his panic attacks. (Him fainting over the gabagool) Melfi said Tony relates meat to sex and violence, as well as pressure for him to be the breadwinner and hurt others Ralph talks tons of shit at him but him mentioning how he eats so much meat is the final psychological trigger that makes Tony cross the line after everything else building up to it
space colon
2025-01-26 02:16:15 +0000 UTCThis is the best show in terms of showing how burying your negative feelings doesn't just magically make them go away and they can erupt anytime in the future over something unrelated. Their conflict played out how conflicts happen in real life and not in a typical TV arc fashion. You have your initial conflict, life goes on but with occasional traces of those old feelings popping up, and then something else causes all of the buried feelings to bubble up. Tracee was always the heart of their conflict and it made a lot of sense that it book-ended it even if more obliquely than usual. "How anyone has selective empathy", most people have selective empathy. Theirs are just more narrow. Ralphie even brings up vegetarianism in the face of Tony's outrage over an animal dying. I don't see too many people agonizing everyday about where their stuff is coming from.
Veya
2025-01-26 02:13:54 +0000 UTCTony killed Ralphie because of tracee David chase confirmed it "Tony had it right. But the thing is, when he was beating up on Ralphie for killing Pie-o-My, it was really about that girl who he killed, Tracee (Ariel Kiley). I really love how the show leaves it ambiguous with only gentle nods leading you to the “correct” answer like the photo of tracee in the end. I think David chase ultimately didn’t want to give us the viewer a reason to root on Ralphie death, it’s why they tried to have us sympathize with him earlier in the episode.
Ory
2025-01-26 02:10:32 +0000 UTCHBO is so bad with thumbnails. If there is a way to not see them definitely worth it.
Marcus Cato
2025-01-26 02:05:41 +0000 UTCBtw, have LM mentioned when they might release the Godfather 2 reaction? I thought they were gonna do one movie a month. Since it's a sequel, it's like waiting for the next episode reaction and it's torturous lol
ODIS
2025-01-26 02:04:35 +0000 UTCChris wielding a ‘cleaver’? Very observant, the sacred and the propane.
Darrach
2025-01-26 02:03:26 +0000 UTCWhen Ralphie arrives at the hospital he says "Please allow me to introduce myself." Later when speaking to Father Intantola, he says "Pleased to meet ya." These are both lines from Sympathy for the Devil, by the Rolling Stones. There are many, many other subtle nods to Ralphie being the Devil throughout the show. Goats are an image of Satan, and that goat was always around Pie-o-my. Ralphie is from Miami.... you know, below - where it's hot. There are many more of these subtleties that I never picked up on until a rewatch. Great writing.
Michael M
2025-01-26 02:03:17 +0000 UTCY'all have to find a way not to see the episode thumbnails for these old HBO shows, lol. They are just spoiler central; no idea why it's like that. I remember the episode Stringer dies in the Wire, the thumbnail was Omar with Mouzone which hasn't happened before. Ruins the suspense for no reason.
mbds
2025-01-26 01:52:37 +0000 UTCyou need a new mic, it appears to be broken. static noise
Hængeklumpen
2025-01-26 01:49:56 +0000 UTC5x08 definitely, I’ve looked ahead and that’s the worst one I’d say
Darrach
2025-01-26 01:46:27 +0000 UTCThis episode is where I really started feeling sorry for Chris. I know that's not totally logical, but it's no wonder he's so fucked up and getting high all the time. They showed him cutting up Richie in Satriale's too but that was played for laughs. This episode actually makes you think about how insane it is. I also felt bad for Junior too. Asking an old man to fake dementia and joking about it is very cruel. Especially when he starts showing genuine signs at the end of the episode.
Mark M
2025-01-26 01:40:21 +0000 UTCYeah it's really dumb. Also for future episodes, there's spoilery images for 5x08, 5x11 and 6x02.
Veya
2025-01-26 01:38:58 +0000 UTCWell that is better I’ll say, but still not great. The Wire showed them Omar and Brother Mouzone walking together which was in the last five minutes of an episode.
Darrach
2025-01-26 01:29:26 +0000 UTCSeason 4 is so good. I think it's my favourite overall
bondbond53
2025-01-26 01:26:45 +0000 UTCBTW Ralphie mentions he has a kid named Justin all the way back in season 3 episode 4 (the rape episode).
Veya
2025-01-26 01:25:46 +0000 UTCThey didn't show the kitchen fight, it was the scene where Tony shoves Ralphie in the hospital.
Veya
2025-01-26 01:24:02 +0000 UTCIt was a *fuckin'* horse
Derek Suboticki
2025-01-26 01:09:43 +0000 UTCIn the thumbnail, Milena looks like The Scream painting
Damien Fenton
2025-01-26 01:07:21 +0000 UTCGood riddance Ralph! ✌️
Tyler Jackson
2025-01-26 01:07:11 +0000 UTCKind of fucking dumb for HBO to show the fight in the thumbnail? That’s multiple times now the events of an episode of a HBO show (The Wire too) has been spoiled before watching for these two.
Darrach
2025-01-26 01:06:38 +0000 UTCMilena's face in that thumbnail! 😂
Marcus Cato
2025-01-26 00:58:01 +0000 UTC
