DITW 13-13: Happy Walks and Shade
Added 2024-03-07 23:00:04 +0000 UTCThe room spun. The cruelty astounded him. He recoiled, aghast, devastated. Kimmy had lured him close so she could sink a fatal blade into his heart. He backed away from her, bewildered, stunned, the whole world pulled out from under him, snatched by an unseen magician’s hand. Kimmy pursued him, her face twisted in mock confusion. When she saw he was speechless, she said, “What is it? Why are you...?”
He covered his hands over his face. “Kimmy, you...”
Kimmy’s hands went around his wrists. “Josh, wait, it’s not . . . It’s not...”
His hands came away, and he studied her face, looking in her eyes to see behind this bewildered facade, knowing malevolence burned behind them. He could barely speak, his throat constricted. He finished her denial: “It’s not his?”
Her hands fell from his wrists and she now she spoke in a hushed tone. “It’s not.”
“Kimmy, oh my god,” he said, retreating further, sliding off the bed, grabbing his towel, hating his nakedness, hating the weakness that had followed his wife’s lure, putting his dick inside her because it shut his brain off when he did.
She called after him, but he was headed to the closet, needing to be clad in the armor of underwear and jeans and flannel. He’d never felt more vulnerable in his life. She pleaded, and he turned, saw her on the bed, covering her own nudity, legs together, on her knees, arm over her breasts. She said, “I’m on the pill.”
He grunted and reeled, fleeing into the closet and putting on underwear, his dick flinging the stringy wet conjured by his wife’s extreme indecency. Hypnotizing him into fucking her when he should know better. Underwear, then jeans, throwing a T-shirt on . . . Kimmy was in the doorway now, wrapped in the robe she kept in the bathroom. She said it again, told him she was on the pill as if he hadn’t heard her the first time.
“Get out of the closet, please,” he said, pulling a sweatshirt over his head, feeling trapped with her blocking the door.
“Josh, you’re acting crazy. I don’t think you know—”
He had the sweatshirt on now, tugging it to his waist, head popping out of the hood. “You weren’t on the pill at fucking Tiffany’s, were you?” That shut her up. He said, “I know you weren’t.”
“Josh, I wouldn’t be happy about being pregnant if I thought it wasn’t yours.”
“Yeah, you would,” he said. “You’d do it to trick me. You’d do it to get away with it.”
Kimmy’s brow lowered in anger, and now she wasn’t so sweet or pleading, saying, “Be careful what you’re saying, Josh.”
“Or what? You’ll have an affair with my high school bully? Get pregnant?”
Kimmy saw she couldn’t argue the point, and seeing acceptance in her posture uplifted him, amplified his righteousness. As she leaned on the doorframe and put a hand to her temple, he moved closer, saying, “At the very best, Kimmy, why the fuck would you tell me you’re pregnant on the day I watched Devlin Stone fuck you? Why would you forever link those two things?”
Her hand dropped to her side, and she sighed, speaking with her eyes closed, saying, “Josh, we’re going to have a baby. We’re going to have our family.”
He said, “Maybe I didn’t plant it deep enough. Maybe if you give birth it’s because it’s Devlin’s.” He tried to step past her, but she clung to him.
“Don’t be crazy, Josh. You’re taking this the wrong way. Don’t leave, don’t take off on me.”
“Why not?” He said, “I’m a coward, remember? It’s the thing I’m good at,” and pushed her off of him, storming out of the closet and into their bedroom.
Kimmy followed, pleading again, “Please, Josh, please don’t leave me. Stay and talk, hear me out.”
He’d hated referring to himself as a coward, had only said it to hurt her, make her feel bad for ever calling him one. He paused, hand on the bedroom door, dropping his chin down, knowing every ion in his body wanted to escape Kimmy’s electromagnetic force. The closer she came, the greater the force, and the greater pain loaded onto his heart. In that paused moment of time he could picture Devlin’s baby growing inside the woman he loved, and the woman he loved liking that it was Devlin’s baby, and the two of them laughing behind his back. He recoiled when she touched him.
She said, “I know, okay? I know how it sounds. I didn’t think how it would sound before I . . . I’m selfish. Okay? I know I’m selfish. I felt so great a minute ago, so glad we were in bed together, I wanted to tell you something good, something that would make you happy.”
“You’re insane,” he said. “You’re crazy.”
“Josh, I love you.” Her smooth brow knit into a furrow. “How can you say that? I love you.”
He still looked down at his hand on the door lever. “If it’s Devlin’s will you get rid of it?”
She said, “It’s not Devlin’s. Don’t be ridiculous.”
He scoffed at her brazenness, looking at her now. “Will you get rid of it?”
“It? It’s our baby, Josh.”
“And if it’s Devlin’s...?”
“It’s not,” she said, jaw clenching.
“You’re kidding me. One hundred percent sure. You expect me to what? Raise my bully’s baby with you?”
“Josh, stop saying that,” she said, slouching, putting up her hands on either side of her head like she wanted to cover her ears. “Please, please . . . I’m talking about our baby.”
He said, “You’re talking about a baby,” cold, detached.
The hands near her ears went to her mouth, and he could see her eyes swell with tears. It didn’t make him feel good, but he would never fall for her trickery again. His own eyes began to tear in sympathy, knowing she wasn’t faking the misery he saw now. They’d suffered in the spring, each of them in their own way. A pregnancy would mean something incredible to her, but she’d betrayed him and lost his trust. “You can lie some more, tell me there’s no way it’s Devlin’s, but I won’t believe you. I just won’t.”
“I’m not trying to,” she said, voice a thin whisper, tears rolling on her cheeks now.
“I know you’re going to go to work tomorrow with Devlin. I know you’re pregnant now. What do you want me to do, stand by your side and let you make a fool out of me?”
“Josh, don’t say that. You’re not a fool—”
“Not anymore,” he said and levered the door. Kimmy stopped him with a hand on his arm. He regarded her. Her eyes had taken on an expression of horror.
She said, “I don’t want to be superstitious...”
“But what?”
“Don’t” she said, shaking her head, lips slimming.
“Don’t what? Leave you? You want me to stay and let you destroy me?”
“The negativity,” she said. “It’s bad. It’s a bad start.”
He scoffed again. “A bad start? What if I’m not even a part of it?”
“You are,” she pleaded, nails digging through his sweatshirt into his bicep. “You’re all of it.”
“Look in my eyes and tell me something,” he said.
Kimmy’s sniveling eyes met his, knowing he would say something that would hurt her. More tears; her cheeks had reddened. He asked it anyway. “Tell me there’s not a single chance it’s Devlin’s. Lie to my face one more time.”
Her hand dropped, and she said, “It’s yours.”
Cruelty came to him easier now, and he said, “Do you even want it to be?” Kimmy’s look of unambiguous anguish was exquisite, and he enjoyed it for only a fraction of a second before he felt shame and guilt. Still, he yanked open the door and left. The further he marched down the hall, the more he hoped she would pursue him. He stopped at the kitchen, turned back, disheartened to see she hadn’t.
He held fists to his cheeks, pressing knuckles into the hollows, staring with madness into the kitchen, feeling his insides tearing apart. Remorse loomed the strongest; remorse for the direction he’d allowed their relationship to take. Despair over where his relationship should be. His toes curled the edge of demise’s precipice. A premonition swelled inside him that if he departed there would be nothing when he returned. Kimmy had just told him she was pregnant. Had just told him they would have a baby...
But even that simple recollection turned his stomach. Not his. Not his. He stomped past the kitchen to the apartment door, but stopped again, face twisting up in the cold paralysis of indecision. Wanting to harm Kimmy but wanting to console her. Console her for the harshness of his words, wanting to console her because she might be pregnant with his child. And they’d suffered before.
When he turned to the kitchen, Kimmy was there. Beautiful in her bathrobe and her clinging hair, sadness in her eyes. Kimmy could lie and betray, but she was no thespian. She could only portray the cold. The tears, the grief, the misery were all real.
She said, “I cared. You don’t know how much I cared. You don’t know how much hurt I saved you from. I wanted this for you, but I wanted it in your own time. Devlin’s too stupid to care. Devlin ruined it.”
“You can’t stop talking about him,” he said, words of anger, but spoken in quiet monotone, both of them stating harsh things and wanting them to be heard enough to squelch the emotion that would have them tearing each other to shreds. “You’re obsessed with him.”
“You are too, Josh,” she whispered.
“No. I’m not. It’s you.” He met her eyes. “You force me to think about him every day. Every day, Kimmy.” Her lips pinched closed, and she looked down. He said, “Every day since Tiffany’s party Devlin Stone is in my head. Because of what you did. Don’t you see it? You brought this on me. On us.”
He watched as her face contorted, biting her own lips, shaking her head. She said, “Devlin’s a fool. He thinks he can start his own thing, thinks he has what it takes. He doesn’t see what he has. Doesn’t see how it works. He wants to make his mark, impress his daddy, but he has no idea what he’s doing.”
“You are obsessed with him, Kimmy. He’s all you can talk about.”
She spoke through gritted teeth. “I talk about him because he’s in my way.”
“You think I want revenge? I don’t. I want this to be over—fuck, I want it to never have happened, but...”
Kimmy crossed her arms, eyes soft and expression open.
He dipped his chin and exhaled. “You’re going to go to work tomorrow. You’re going to have your baby. Even if it’s Devlin’s.”
She showed him an expression of restrained denial, hating that she had to allow him to state something she didn’t believe. But her actions had made this moment; her betrayal had carved it from a solid block of marble. There was nothing she could say.
He looked up at the ceiling. “You know, everything you’ve done to me, I can’t believe I’m not screaming and ranting and raving like a lunatic. I wanted to throw everything you own out the window. Now look at me. Leaving again with my tail between my legs. I’m your coward, remember?”
She rolled her eyes up and shook her head, more tears coming.
“I’m no coward, Kimmy. I’d fight for you to the end. I’d fight to the death for you. Problem is you’re the villain. You’re the enemy. You’re the one who wants to destroy me.”
“I don’t want you to go,” she said, voice quivering. “I want you to stay.”
He nodded, but looked away. “I think that would be the worst thing I could do.”
She covered her mouth and squeezed tears from her eyes.
He grabbed his car keys and left without saying goodbye.
Comments
This isn't really essential but its importance has renewed my attention to its centrality in this impressive exciting novel... KT frequently demonstrates that wise saws like problems can be solved by talking them over are demonstrably false, and language itself and people's personal agendas and prejudices are as much of a hinderance as help in clearing important issues up. Misunderstandings frequently pass unnoticed. I first realized KT focusses much more on disastrous misunderstanding than most writers in Cherry Blossoms, where Geoff or Nia often had what I considered game changing epiphanies. These they would then contradict or dismiss. After a while I realized the author was doing this not merely to serve the plot, which is fairly commonplace in good writing, but also to add realism... because this is what we do. I also noticed that KT set up disparate events and numerous characters that influenced the turn of events for the main characters unobtrusively. DITW is similar in its deceptive subtlety. KT heightens drama by undercutting it and increases the unease or angst of the reader. Her style requires more investment in the work by the reader than other run of the mill genre, or trope driven works, are able to inspire. Just look where we are now... from what was on the face of it a simple plot with a bit of an ironic twist...
Bill F Protagoras
2024-03-19 06:45:01 +0000 UTCDear Karl, please forward this to whom it may concern, I want to see Kimmy undo the totally dishonest struggle between three people that Devlin coldly and unscrupulously initiated by seducing Kimmy then putting the idea of involving her husband, the high school victim of his bullying, in his ugly machinations, into her plainly vulnerable and susceptible mind, by punishing the person who heartlessly brought about the destruction of their marriage through cruel indifference at least, and much more likely malice aforethought. I want the blame to lie squarely where it belongs. I want it to be done with his victims heaping as little undeserved guilt on themselves as is feasible. At the same time I want plenty of filthy deviant sex, some of which should be dedicated to seeing if bullies, who really are asking for it, are exposed to be unable to take it like they dish it out, but act rather like the snivelling cowards they most assuredly are... I want all of this done with the greatest realism possible... and in my computer by next Tuesday please. Alternatively the author could do what she thinks best at her own convenience... Phew! That was fun! And oblige, Ms Prism, alter ego of Oscar Life is Art Wilde! PS, For 'deviant sex' please read moral rectitude.
Bill F Protagoras
2024-03-16 13:14:50 +0000 UTCYes, JL23, this is a good analysis of the paradox the Waters are in... especially Kimmy... how do you defeat the monster when you find to your surprise you're already becoming just like him... No wonder they're both so fucked up right now! A fine recipe for self hatred! It's a knotty problem... somebody might have to think like Alexander... because I don't think Devlin is in charge of the situation any more than he was in peevish charge of his ejaculation! And anyway, if he were in control what new farce might he create! The way I see it, the irony is that Kimmy's assumptions have untethered Josh, his ambitions don't drive him as hard as hers do her. A modest dream of love is now off the table because he has recognized how much Kimmy has changed, and he is uncomfortable with what is being 'offered' him, with a free gift which to him is anathema!
Bill F Protagoras
2024-03-15 13:27:23 +0000 UTCKarl, I was just writing myself in circles but I'm tired and was starting to talk more through my arse than usual so I just stuck it on a one note for later. Again your thoughts are inspiring... just think, we've got more possibility of getting our questions answered here than in the open endedness of life itself. See! Talking out of my arse! Hope springs eternal, although Pandora locked it away in her box! This is life, neither are we out of it! Fantasies don't have to interlock like a jigsaw puzzle close is usually good enough!
Bill F Protagoras
2024-03-15 13:12:27 +0000 UTCIt feels like what she hates the most is Devlin just has everything by circumstance, while she (and Josh) worked hard, lived the “right” kind of life, and weren’t rewarded for it. I think the tragedies that have befallen them, and their inability to talk through them (just power on and don’t discuss it) play a psychological role there. But I think what she doesn’t admit is that is also what’s attracting her to Devlin. She wants what he has, what he represents. And, even if subconsciously, is drawing herself closer to him in order to get it. I still think she sees Josh as her emotional anchor, but she has a very specific dynamic on what their marriage is. She’s the “spine,” he’s the “heart.” Some of this is Devlin’s manipulation on how they should view themselves, but Kimmy has put a more palatable spin on it to make it more appealing to Josh (and to try and eliminate the idea that Devlin is in control). She needs Josh for the love, emotional support and total devotion that only he can provide. But he needs her to be the rock, the one in charge of steering the course of their lives. Josh just isn’t strong enough to make those decisions in her eyes. In return for ceding that control, she’ll reward him by fulfilling the kinkiest desires he could imagine. That’s essentially what her offer is to him, even if she doesn’t spell it out that way. Josh is her tether, the person who will keep her from ultimately just becoming Devlin herself. Even if she wants what he has, she wants those things without becoming what she perceives him to be.
JL23
2024-03-15 12:29:18 +0000 UTCI was thinking about Kimmy’s obsession, is she obsessed on how Devlin makes her feel, the rush that she hard tried to replicate with Josh? Or is the hate and envy towards Devlin part of her thrill, how forbidden it was, cheating with Josh’s nemesis, was there already some sadistic pleasure mixed in it although she was going through lot of guilt? Was the guilt tripping masochistic on her behalf and did it turn into sadism when Josh didn’t push her for the truth but almost meekly let things fold out infront of him, Josh’s ”weaknes” drawing out her power and dominance? Looking at the transforming Kimmy who is struggling with her obsession towards the man she claims she hates, or addiction towards feelings he makes her feel, I have a hard time figuring out if she hates the man Devlin is or the undeserved privilige he represents or both. If she truly hates Devlin, not just the privilige, it’s bitter sweet that, in my eyes, she is transforming to qualities similar to Devlin. And I don’t know how to feel when and if she is trying to groom Josh to become the Devlin she wants and needs. Is the old ”weak” Josh her anchor anymore? Is Hyun her new anchor? I do love your notion/idea of Kimmy having a hectic transformation and her being adrift without an anchor. And where does it anchor her to, her old self, her old life and does she even want that anymore? Josh does. But could it be beneficial for her to figure out who she is by herself and on her own terms, without anchors? I do love the the classic cuckold dynamic they were developing and would love to see if Josh and Kimmy could enjoy it, hard with all the history but can’t imagine what would heighten a masochistic cuckolds angsty pleasure but their situation. A big IF. Also a big if Josh is even a masochist and bigger if he can ever enjoy his fantasies with Kimmy, I hope he still can and I hope Kimmy would still want him.
Karl
2024-03-15 10:02:23 +0000 UTCOne time at an outside table on a beautiful day in Segovia, an old Spanish mate of mine and I were talking in English as we usually did laughing and heartily knocking back booze effing and blinding, reminiscing. There were tourists at other tables nearby, some speaking English, when Carlos went to the bog, a 'gentleman' on a nearby table said, in the affected tone of a certain entitled type of Englishman... "Is there any need for that language?" I snapped back, "You mean the language of Chaucer and Shakespeare, if you don't like it you shouldn't fuckin eavesdrop!" He was not well pleased... but didn't offer any further uninvited comments. Shortly, when Carlos returned he looked over at the nearby table and asked me "Que pasa con el gilipollas?" Loosely, "What's up with the wanker?" When I replied, "Es ingles!" Carlos roared with laughter! The man fumed silently, then gestured for his check! Gili... the 'g' pronounced like you're clearing your throat only before 'i' & 'e'... I was told comes from gitano (gypsy) and means innocent or fool(ish)... Pollas means cocks or dicks. The double 'l' like 'y' preceding a vowel as in yelp, yolk etc.
Bill F Protagoras
2024-03-15 09:16:39 +0000 UTCYeah, it fits as you say with the friends and acquaintances' accounts or opinions of Kimmy, even her name with the diminutive form. Also her reticent over compensation in sexuality, the espousal of conspicuous consumption of the leisure class... I keep on reminding myself this metamorphosis has been hectic... also there is alienation from her previous job and social life... Devlin is the besmirched gateway to greater prestige... we frequently confuse distance and assigned power with charisma... cosmetic gloss with worth... and Kimmy after the trauma of the miscarriage became a new person, but mainly inside her own head. I know from personal experience that trauma can completely change you inside and friends and family hardly notice how much... Kimmy kept a lid on her ecstatic transmogrification... but without the anchor of nostalgic Josh, out-of-date Josh, she is going to be adrift and all at sea and how will she manage alone. All this in how short a time? For a woman who not so long ago considered herself mousey and well meaning... and was a victim of ostracization and bullying! And as you exemplified what of the expectations of her family... what will they think? That was an inspiring post Karl! Even domming Josh would give her vicarious ersatz control. Now I'm starting with reductionist theorizing. Sorry. Mightn't it be that the reason she resented Josh was because he didn't control her and they were equals in alienation... but the one thing he couldn't share with her was the mental and physical experience of the miscarriage... How easily people say things like WE are pregnant... Only a very foolish man would say we miscarried!
Bill F Protagoras
2024-03-15 07:05:37 +0000 UTCKimmy’s obsession of Devlin is so strong starting from book one. How Josh notices a change in her, how she needs the same kind of dirty talk from Josh she got from Devlin, Devlins grip loosening only after she masturbates secretly in the bathroom after dissapointing sex with Josh. And Josh sabotaging himself, thinking and comparing himself with Devlin, because of the tent Devlin, the mystery text messages, because he notices Kimmy is acting strange and guilty, knowing something happened, because Kimmy tries to protect Josh’s feelings by not telling him the truth. And Kimmy even thinking if she just had the courage to tell Josh the truth, she’d be freed from Devlins grip. Reading how everyone seems Kimmy, and how out of place everyone thinks the scene at Tiffanys is, Kimmy lashing out in anger, Steve remarking something like not ever hearing Kimmy raise a voice, for me, it paints a picture of a repressed woman. Like she said herself, Devlin made her feel so strong she couldn’t repress her feelings any more. Kimmy’s story reminds me of a TedTalk about cheating where a woman who came from a very conservative background and her whole life has been controlled by either her parents or her community, everything in her life has been dictated by something or someone outside. She had a loving and fulfilling marriage, but she ended up cheating with a gardener to rebel and to feel free of her past and all the expectation laid out for her.
Karl
2024-03-15 05:38:32 +0000 UTC“I don’t want you to go,” she said, voice quivering. “I want you to stay.” "He nodded, but looked away. “I think that would be the worst thing I could do.” I can't help thinking that Josh is right in a multitude of ways. I still feel sorry for Kimmy, though the one thing that she's got going for her is she is pregnant... which means she is carrying a little passenger that is also growing more selfish daily! And the chemical changes that brings with it! If she's lucky, of course! If she's lucky. They may help her in getting her priorities right!
Bill F Protagoras
2024-03-15 03:40:39 +0000 UTC"You’re obsessed with him.” “You are too, Josh,” she whispered. “No. I’m not. It’s you.” He met her eyes. “You force me to think about him every day. Every day, Kimmy.” Her lips pinched closed, and she looked down. He said, “Every day since Tiffany’s party Devlin Stone is in my head. Because of what you did. Don’t you see it? You brought this on me. On us.” Like me, Josh is a non-Freudian believer, a believer in "Out of sight is out of mind" and the less flattering version of "Absence makes the heart grow fonder!" The less I see of you the happier I am! My intention was to reference Josh with Devlin... but sadly and ironically it might be applied to the husband and wife. I could've said... the less one sees of one the happier one is... but that comes from a language used by unspeakable people!
Bill F Protagoras
2024-03-15 03:29:19 +0000 UTC"Kimmy’s sniveling eyes" I love the horrifying prejudicial ambiguous nature of the adjective and its link to the cliché "snivelling coward"! This whole chapter reveals that language is full of pitfalls that can only be partially overcome by good faith, or unified purpose. Or the great leveller, not death, the other one... love!
Bill F Protagoras
2024-03-15 02:51:17 +0000 UTC"He paused, hand on the bedroom door, dropping his chin down, knowing every ion in his body wanted to escape Kimmy’s electromagnetic force. The closer she came, the greater the force, and the greater pain loaded onto his heart." Another great KT epic metaphor I love!
Bill F Protagoras
2024-03-15 02:30:12 +0000 UTCAlthough his Nabs also said that a writer should create his readers... readership... One of the things that astonished me was that the only novel I was able to persuade mi mujer to read (en Castellano) was Nabakov's "Ada", which, you could've knocked me over with an intercontinental ballistic missile, she loved! I suppose medicine consumed or pragmatized her interest in reading... She was not the type of person to tell me something just to please me!
Bill F Protagoras
2024-03-15 00:53:00 +0000 UTCLove the spitting on Sandwich simile. And the resonant understatement.... Opinions on revenge are varied though the Icelandic Sagas speak volumes on it. Skarpheddin seemed to get a lot of that long term therapeutic value from it... Though his dad Mr Dungbeard found it a hassle... Also an admirably informative contextual summing up of how that lucky little MF hit the jackpot no matter whose bollock was his departure gate and the conditions that improved a successful outcome on arrival!
Bill F Protagoras
2024-03-14 23:43:18 +0000 UTCI'd have to go back and read book 1. Don't know what KT is going for, as far as who knocked up Kimmy. As far as her BC pill depending on where she was in her cycle during all this is the big factor. There is too much weight put on semen in pre-cum. Mainly to scare people in not using the withdraw method of BC. So, I wouldn't think that the contact at Tiffany's would have given Devlin much chance. Kimmy's making sure she got Josh to do her the next day. She was smart in that he made 50-100 million deposit in her. Maybe 1-2 million make it to her uterus at best 1000 might make it to the correct Fallopian tube. Only one gets the prize. Kimmy would need about 7 day to be safe after she started he pills. Now if she was past ovulation she's safe anyway. As far as Josh's feeling for Kimmy. I think it would be similar to Devlin spitting on Josh's sandwich...distasteful! It's going to be difficult for him to accept her going forward. I would like to see them set Devlin up but wow asking a lot of Josh. Revenge can have some therapeutic value.
RCH
2024-03-14 16:41:45 +0000 UTCAlthough the idea of hunting out the original issues, that I may or may not have was, too daunting (probably futile because I suspect they are gone) I did find the essential compilation in crisp black and white where I was able to remind myself how the terrifying disembodied psychic reality warping mutant secret bastard child of Moira and the Prof, after shrugging off and thwarting the most powerful X Men was 'defeated' by the most unlikely and most physical member through the traditional method of dealing with the fae-folk in a detailed quaint village occasionally emerging from the protean illusion of Byrne's imagination... Piotr Rasputin, hero of the proletariat spiked him into the earth like a baneful iron (steel) lightning rod! Believe me even, or maybe especially, in black and white Byrne's detailed inked drawings of the almost supernatural evil tale is spectacular. I do have a compilation in colour of the Dark Phoenix Saga which, of course, includes Logan's lone foray into the Hellfire Club in an attempt to pluck super slutty Dark Queen Jean Gray out of the no doubt sexual clutches of its, forgive the crudity, members. Is it synchronicity or is there a feel of Evil Kimmy about former staid good girl Jean parading around in black (satin!) underwear in front of the besotted Scott and Logan? The End..
Bill F Protagoras
2024-03-13 23:58:08 +0000 UTCThis supports a thought I had... that the element most vital to his hard on is the heightened pleasure of his wife, not Devlin's size and potency! The events of the day proved more and more that Devlin's involvement in the re-enactment repulsed, disgusted and finally sickened Josh. Finally even contaminating and seemingly ruining his love for his wife... even the demise of his love.
Bill F Protagoras
2024-03-13 12:54:20 +0000 UTCYep, that's why I think there's a possibility it's Josh's baby. Also I know contraceptive pills have developed somewhat since then, but my doctor GF warned me that when restarting the pill there was a possibility of increased fertility. Even though I only used a condom once, she insisted that we take our chances with the pull out and rhythm method. Our luck held. But she was a good doctor and a woman... so I wouldn't disregard her opinion, Later, she changed to an IUD. A quick glance on the net makes me think what she said then still holds true...
Bill F Protagoras
2024-03-13 11:15:26 +0000 UTCWell said Bill. I just read some of the first book, how Kimmy desperately needed Josh to cum inside her showed there was real concern of what happened at Tiffany’s and her ovulation. I didn’t pick up any real emotional connection or real attempt to reconnect with Josh after the incident, maybe just lust after Devlin and a need to hopefully cover her tracks and give Josh a chance to father the possible baby. Edit: Also Josh’s head was at Tiffany’s and at Devlins mind games. Funny enough here the thought of Devlin made Josh loose his erection with Kimmy, but alone he was able to masturbate to the thought of Kimmy and Devlins bigger dick.
Karl
2024-03-13 10:32:11 +0000 UTCJosh’s struggle of being so close to the truth, knowing something had happened, but not knowing what, fearing the worst and hoping for the best is so well written. And everyone around Josh scolding him for even doubting Kimmy, brilliant. It was really hard to read sometimes. I started reading again form book 1. I didn’t remember how blatantly Kimmy shut down Josh’s attempts to ask the truth of Tiffany’s. And how Kimmy made, or maybe one could use the word forced, Josh to cum inside her after her realization of her ovulation. She was in it just for Josh’s sperm, attempt to make sure Josh had a chance for impregnation instead of just Devlin. And how Josh had so much reservation for Kimmy’s actions and playing Devlin scenarios in his head, damn. Reading that part again makes me still doubt just the tip part of Tiffany’s, even though the later narrative supports the tip theory. She was so worried about the ovulation and I know it is enough, but was there something more that we don’t know yet, perhaps ejaculation? And the ”ghost” Devlin in Josh’s tent, who went balls deep in Kimmy, was it s dream or just Devlins mind games?
Karl
2024-03-13 10:23:32 +0000 UTCYour last point is similar to what mine has been all along... The "which came first the chicken or the egg riddle". Before anything else happened Josh definitely got hard thinking about Devlin fucking Kimmy with his big dick as a result of his insecurity and envy that his bully can satisfy his wife more than he can. Then he tried to repeat it when having sex with Kimmy and she said something that made him lose his chub something about Devlin that impugned his manhood I believe... something that humiliated him. What I'm suggesting is that the humiliation/hard on effect was not manifest at that point. If you read the two latest chapters you will find many points where humiliation does not trigger a hard on... so this is no simple kink because what we hear Josh express instead are his fears and feelings of inadequacy to be able to satisfy or even impregnate Kimmy. Read the two latest chapters and ask yourself does this make you think that Josh's current problem can be solved by glorified erotic foreplay. Josh I am now thinking is joining Kimmy in total fuckedupness! Which does not bode well... Because the new factor in the Waters marriage is now clear... Devlin and his wife are having an affair and his wife is living in denial about whose child she may be carrying... and Josh is now really worried about his "manhood" and the person he would normally turn to for reassurance is not only proving herself untrustworthy... but has spent the stressful ending of this long miserable day insisting that she needs him to grow a pair! So he left... and it might be a good thing if Kimmy moved the destruction of Devlin from the top of her to do list...
Bill F Protagoras
2024-03-13 09:25:17 +0000 UTCThanks for clearing up... or pointing out the problematic nature of the sophistry of Josh's consent when he was never read the large print version of an imaginary consent form and as you pointed out due to the multiple potential games that the three separate characters were envisioning a lot of clarification would be necessary. I've read the first six books at least 3 times some probably more, and though Josh had sound reasons to suspect he was being cuckolded he had no proof. Kimmy went out of her way to conceal the fact she was really cheating, so why would he have to consent to what, no matter how naively on his part, he believed to be no more than kinky role play. On several occasions when Devlin had Josh alone he got close to revealing the truth, but didn't... and we know that Josh thought Devlin was just up to his usual bullying tricks. No explicit consent was asked for or given. If anybody understood Josh consented that would be their problem. Even now relevant facts are being hidden from Josh, are they to be added onto the imaginary consent form in imaginary crayon... I imagine not! The rest of what you say I thoroughly approve of, but I'm willing to bet KT is going to make us revise all our expectations in the next book!
Bill F Protagoras
2024-03-13 08:57:58 +0000 UTCYou have a good point there Bill. Even though if Josh has sexualized his fear of Devlin and Kimmy cheating on him, it doesn’t necessarily make him a full blown masochist. That he enjoys humiliation, doesn’t necessarily make him a masochist either, but considering Josh’s past and how their cuckolding side of their relationship has developed, there is significant amount of pain involved. But what I’m wondering is Josh having masochistic tendecies because of the painful circmustances he is discovering his kinks in and not because he really enjoys the pain?
Karl
2024-03-13 07:55:04 +0000 UTCFound it! Eviction! Mortality! Jophiel and the flaming sword!
Bill F Protagoras
2024-03-13 05:37:13 +0000 UTCYou're one to talk... the august array as I know you know needs nudging and jiggling... also my prep for classes was done in my head relying on experience and inspiration. Also like yourself I love language. Recently an old friend (in the UK) of mine said to me, when I told her about Patreon that I have a unique way of thinking and when I laughed, told me that she and another friend of ours who is a clinical psychologist had been talking about me agreed. I felt quite proud that two women I respect thought so well of me... and now YOU who I genuinely believe to be amongst the best writers I have read. It's certainly cheered me up! Sometimes words do come out in long strings but that makes me think Uh oh ! Cliché! I've lain down with a lot of books, it's not surprising I've got up with fleas.
Bill F Protagoras
2024-03-13 05:16:10 +0000 UTCAs Liverpool was mainly populated by the Irish in the late 1800s it's part of Scouse the way we talk, the commoners that is! My Gran was Irish, and me mum's parents were of Irish descent, even me grandad was from Cornwall.
Bill F Protagoras
2024-03-13 04:46:29 +0000 UTCThe entire Byrne run was brilliant, but I think that was the first time Claremont had Logan say he was the best at what he did... and he started 'killing' lackeys 'cos that's what it looked like! It came from me saying you were so good at what you do and Hellfire, of course! The comic with the advent of John Byrne all just flowed together it was brilliant... Byrne was like Kirby for me, he walked on water, and Claremont towered above Stan Lee who clung onto Jack Kirby's coat tails, though ably enough, I suppose! It was all one long saga but Proteus was it's climactic beginning then on through Dark Phoenix, Days of Future Past, Wait it started with Kazar, Magneto, Alpha Flight,... There were other great runs with John Romita Jr, but for me John Byrne as the artist forged the iconic X Men. One thing that was staggering was the expanding population of that comic and how well Claremont held it in balance. All these women popping up Moira Mac Taggart, Jean, Storm, Rogue, Mystique, Emma Frost, Jubilee. But the most unique the girl who made the X Men into her sidekicks a modest teen with the challenging name of Kitty Pride which will outlive any Alter Ego she's had since... It was immense, but Marvel wanted more money... and that was when my attention to comics became more limited. More particular, more selective! I thought you'd know it though, I was sure you would! Though never officially, it was Marvel Canada! You love art and comics. Comics were the greatest innovative medium of the 20th century, and it is still growing. Kirby cut his teeth on humble insert work animating Popeye. It can do things none of its rivals can achieve. It is finally shedding its kid's genre triviality. Mainly because it has grown up alongside its readers... not because the salesmen created a demand but because its serious readership became creators of what they wanted to read. Like the novel. Like the rhapsodes, in fact! Like you in particular, or Flann O' Brien and Vladimir Nabokov.
Bill F Protagoras
2024-03-13 04:28:36 +0000 UTC@Bill I so envy your way with words! Such sparkling jewels in an already august array!
KT Morrison
2024-03-13 04:12:58 +0000 UTCDo you recognize it from Milton?
KT Morrison
2024-03-13 04:09:43 +0000 UTCI love this so so much.
KT Morrison
2024-03-13 04:04:22 +0000 UTCI wasn't aware of it! But I see the similarity in their character. It makes sense that I'd be in the same headspace.
KT Morrison
2024-03-13 04:03:34 +0000 UTCDid I use youse? Ha ha, how great! Being Irish, I can't tell you how natural that is!
KT Morrison
2024-03-13 04:02:00 +0000 UTCI remember Hanoi Rocks!
KT Morrison
2024-03-13 03:52:10 +0000 UTCCordial fruit! Good gods!
KT Morrison
2024-03-13 03:36:18 +0000 UTCYou're the best—thank you so much!
KT Morrison
2024-03-13 03:22:23 +0000 UTCWhat a wild reference! JB and CC and all the fun of the X-Men when no one knew who the fuck they were. And that JB! The masterest of all the masters. That Hellfire series stuck with me (and the arrival of the amazing Kitty Pryde) all through the teens. Made me a Weezer fan! It's so crazy how a stranger so far away (Espana?) can describe in only a few words an image on a page in like 1984 and the whole scene is revealed to me (Wolverine holding hands out to suspend himself above the Hellfire guards with their blue uniforms and their strange skin-colored faceless mask). What were your thoughts on the Proteus saga?
KT Morrison
2024-03-13 03:22:06 +0000 UTCInteresting take CSH. This is a bit of potato potatoe thing, but I’m not 100% in on Josh giving consent, even with his actions, just because he hasn’t been aware of the truth of everyhing that has happened. Even if he had a feeling and knew it was likely that everything he feared had happened, he still didn’t fully know into what kind of situation he was consenting to. His actions could have been very different if he had all the knowledge he has now. Sure the story so far has shown that their actions have revealed desires they have kept secret or didn’t know existed, but without communication about them, Bill said perfectly, they’re all playing a different game with different rules so consents are given to different things, and consents are interpreted in different ways by different characters, which creates such thrilling conflicts. The amount and quality of angst these conflicts have created in this story is breathtaking. I do see and agree with the internal battle Josh is having with his masochistic tendencies. And part of me really wants him to come to terms with his cuckold fantasies and for him to get to fully enjoy them with Kimmy, safely, lovingly, on equal terms and boundaries. I also wish Kimmy will find herself and what she really wants in life and with Josh, and that she could be a healthy dom for them. When Kimmy hits Josh’s buttons, it is beautiful, for both of them. Minus that Kimmy had ulterior motives mixed in there, which has kinky charm but makes her character so furiosly unreliable. I like your view that Kimmy was helping Josh become aware of his desires and fantasies. It is far too easy for me to see Kimmy abusing Josh and manipulating him for her own benefit, not that there’s no denying Josh’s fantasies Kimmy wants him to be comfortable with benefit her and her situation a lot. A tiny part of me still wants Kimmy to suffer a little bit though, just for her to feel a bit what Josh went through and vice versa I hope Josh will see snd understand what Kimmy’s been through. Happy cuckold marriage in the making hopefully, or if not that, then I hope they have their happily ever after vanilla marriage. Hopefully more on the kinky side though.
Karl
2024-03-12 23:21:30 +0000 UTCNo, Pete, when you put it that way, that's the kind of psychology I'm on board with... who doesn't push unpleasant tasks and memories to the back of the priorities queue but they are still there supressed though they may be. Freud is one of my bug bears, he was a great theorizer, but he didn't actually 'cure' any patients. It was clever of him to smuggle confession out of the hands of the godmongers, but calling it 'soul analysis' wasn't one of his greatest pieces of legerdemain. You did actually make me realize that the conditioning of Josh's behaviour by Kimmy may account for his dumb move in part... And Kimmy, confused though she may be, recognizes the selfishness of her actions. Also it's brought to my attention the idea that some have, not you, that Kimmy has anger issues... my reply to that is... She does now! And her resentment is now allied with it in seeking retribution from the person or monster who has been consciously fucking around with her through the agency of his family's stolen treasure hoard and the monstrous magicks of his overgrowing wang. Oops... not a Freudian slip, more a bad pun! There's no such thing as a bad question... unless you're a lawyer, it's the answers we have to be wary of... Also some people deserve blame for their crude machinations and squalid greed! We serve at our dark majesty's pleasure!
Bill F Protagoras
2024-03-12 22:00:56 +0000 UTCBill, that's a good point: I may have thrown around the term "subconscious" too frivolously. I simply meant that maybe Josh is rationalizing why he orchestrated the penitence fiasco. And that he may not realize that he's rationalizing. I've frequently rationalized, and I often don't realize I'm doing so in the moment. But perhaps I'm alone in that.
Pete
2024-03-12 16:52:56 +0000 UTCPete, I agree that this basic S&M dynamic has been driving the two characters relationship. What KT has done really well here is develop a realistic set of characters who are developing these tastes over time without full awareness they are doing so. At first they are in denial of their desires, then rationalize their action using morally acceptable logic, and now are slowly coming to terms with acknowledgment of their kink. Much has been and should be said of consent, but i would contend that this is something of a red herring here. When neither character is fully aware of their motivations they have trouble offering consent verbally. They give their consent through acts. Pay attention to what they do not what they say. Kimmy cruelly dominates Josh and has sex with Devlin. Josh spurs kimmy into flagellating him verbally during sex then meekly watches Devlin fuck his wife. That is consent. Throwing a chair didn’t happen till Josh was done watching and was provoked not by consent but a post tryst insult. Josh also knew of the affair long before he acknowledged knowing and “consented” without ever admitting to himself that he wanted it to be real. Lots of people won’t like me saying that he consented but we are talking of fantasy characters in a work of fiction not real life in a courtroom. Kimmy reached limited self-awareness (she still can’t acknowledge her desire for Devlin) and has attempted to get Josh there too. Because she lied to him for so long though he now can’t trust her, fine, but he is mostly struggling with acknowledging his masochism in combination with his knowledge that he cant trust Kimmy incuding with his surrender to his desires. At first he blamed himself for everything, now he blames Kimmy for everything. He needs to reach a balance. So the question is not, what does Josh think, or say to Kimmy, but what does he do? It’s his actions that show his true motivations. I suspect (hope?) he fights, he throws fits, he rebels, he leaves her, but eventually he comes back and surrenders, not really to Devlin or even Kimmy, but to his own sexual desires. Having admitted to himself he needs it, he can begin to set real rules and limits.
CSH
2024-03-12 15:58:21 +0000 UTCHi C... Just a frivolous observation... do you think maybe Kimmy was just a Pavlov's bitch being fed ever harder Dev-dick when she verbally humiliated Josh! Conditioning! All that drooling and whining! Could be nobody's really responsible except for Josh, recklessly giving off that victim vibe!
Bill F Protagoras
2024-03-12 04:52:50 +0000 UTCWhen people just do what they want with disregard for others it is at best selfishness, leading to cruel indifference and even criminality. Why does everybody seem to shirk laying responsibility on Devlin. God forbid, that the wealthy and privileged should be called to account! My interpretation of the dynamic of three is it's a means to hoodwink Kimmy into thinking it's all about sex with her... because it is... as the fact that he will be defiling her in the presence of her husband combined with whatever weird thing he has for Josh gives him a prick of adamantium! The pleasure principal! It certainly blinded Kimmy!
Bill F Protagoras
2024-03-12 04:25:29 +0000 UTCWhich is why I said I suspect... but recently we only know what he says in front of Kimmy which has always been more circumspect than things he has said directly to Josh which have flirted with provocation and insult... to say the least.
Bill F Protagoras
2024-03-12 04:00:47 +0000 UTCEven with Devlin, I just think it’s more selfish indifference than cruelty (indifference to a great degree than Kimmy no doubt), Maybe he started this to be cruel, but now it’s more he came to enjoy the sex with Kimmy (and the added turn on humiliating Josh). Maybe it’s semantics, and his indifference is more intentional than Kimmy, which I suppose you could argue as cruel. But to me Devlin just doesn’t give a shit, he wants what he wants and no one usually tells him no. If he wasn’t into Kimmy and the dynamic of the three, he wouldn’t still be going out of his way to bully Josh, he would have just moved onto something else.
JL23
2024-03-12 02:15:17 +0000 UTCHe thought he was going to uncover what had been done behind his back, and then represented as fantasy in order to distract and control him... he was to some extent right to do so. He miscalculated the impact of the hurt it would cause. This may be precisely because he expected unalloyed pleasure like Kimmy had seduced him with, instead he witnessed the cruel deception that cheating Kimmy and her duplicitous lover presented to make him junior partner in their sordid iniquity. He made a mistake. They, in differing degrees, were selfishly indifferent to his feelings. I suspect that, in fact, Devlin had the cruellest of intentions.
Bill F Protagoras
2024-03-12 01:24:49 +0000 UTCI can't really 'like' this because I don't believe in the subconscious, as the foundation of thought is the brain, not the invention of Freud who had a couple of ideas and turned them into a system which is only a science in the sense that he claims to know what is undemonstrable. So I have two points. If you and a majority here are right and he is a masochist why is he not happy with being tortured. Because belief in the subconscious in the sense that we think we believe something but really we don't, implies reason and the applied sciences which developed from it are untenable and useless. I believe in submission, it's an evolutionary and social strategy. Josh has chosen not to submit because it isn't helping him to avoid pain. If he has a psychological condition that was called masochism then Josh should be happy because he is manifesting and suffering what you lot claim he wants simply by denying that he craves humiliation. By applying Occam's Razor, if Josh says that he doesn't enjoy humiliation and pain, I apply the reason of Hume... people who believe in the supernatural (miracles & Freudian analysis) can be lying, mistaken or mad... so the opinions of those who believe in Freud's theories do not come up to scratch according to your own most valid criteria Occam's Razor, also most psychologists nowadays don't believe in them. Treatment which is considered most effective nowadays is medicinal. Your second maxim is useless as you are presuming that the way Josh is being shown is what you think it is, whilst he is showing me that other people fucking with his head has changed him for the worst. I think I have strong evidence to support my theory without accepting Freud's misinterpretations of mythology, voila, Occam's Razor! And as a bonus, I point to the fact that at various moments in the last two books Kimmy herself has worried about having imposed 'Josh's' kink on him. And rightly so, in my opinion. This is not an argument against you, but an argument against the pseudo science of Freud! You are only one of many I disagree with on this point. I am able to enjoy submissiveness, and do, without taking out a card carrying membership of the Freudian club!
Bill F Protagoras
2024-03-12 00:54:42 +0000 UTCI've been reflecting on Josh's motivations and his reasoning pre the penitence fiasco (so aptly coined by Bill). And I can't shake one question: What in the world did Josh TRULY think was going to come out of that "penitence fiasco"? I know the words Josh said, but ... Consider the scene from 20,000 feet... A cuckold DEMANDS his wife fuck her bull in front of him. Ignore Josh's words, for a moment, and just look at that act. A few maxims come to mind: 1. Actions speak louder than words. 2. When a man shows you who/what he is, listen. 3. Occam's Razor: The simplest explanation is most likely the truth. Isn't the simplest explanation that Josh just wanted to feel good, and as a masochist with a cuckold fetish, his subconscious mind drove him to humiliate himself even further in front of his wife and his high school bully? (Then his mind rationalized {built up rational lies) around that desired eventuality.) Occam's Razor, 20,000 feet, actions speak louder than words. Humiliation is the stuff a cuckold's dreams are made of. And a masochist wants/needs it to hurt. It has to hurt to feel good. And in the depths of sadness, Josh NEEDED to feel good.
Pete
2024-03-11 17:16:15 +0000 UTCThe first... the fact that Kimmy sensed his fears quite accurately made me skeptical... but just before I saw the name Jonny Rumble and I began to speculate maybe KT was setting something up, She's used violence as a catalyst before... I don't mean anything that vindicates Josh like beating Devlin in fight but something that is manifested by such antics... Maybe I have the vaguest fear connected to Josh "His toes curled the edge of demise’s precipice." It might just refer back to the idea of letting go, giving in used in a previous episode. I made a comment like it's always tempting... then but life's the only game in town. Because I'm morbid. But KT did use the word demise... it could just be to make things more edgy or metaphorical. I hope so! It can also mean... The end of something, in a negative sense; downfall... which would make perfect sense in the context. Also KT loves to use rare words or rare usages. And he does leave at the end of the chapter... it could be forewarning or resonance. There are always undertows in KT's writing, especially in this work with literary echoes and references. I suppose Kimmy is a bully but not a real dedicated one, it's a failing not a way of life... a dom bully, but sometimes it's hard to tell the difference. She has definitely had a detrimental effect on Josh, as did his own penitence fiasco... that appears to have been self-inflicted trauma. But it was a mere echo of the cheating that went on behind his back.
Bill F Protagoras
2024-03-11 10:03:08 +0000 UTCAre you thinking that Devlin would revert back to high school bullying antics? Or that Kimmy is the one Josh should really fear, the real bully?
Karl
2024-03-11 09:31:39 +0000 UTCSo sometimes it occurs to me I'm really obtuse... Josh keeps on having these paranoid scenarios of his old school nightmares happening to him in the adult world... and the odd thing was that Kimmy seemed tuned into his fears... What if... Devlin really is as petty and craven as he appears to be...
Bill F Protagoras
2024-03-11 09:19:48 +0000 UTCMaybe we'll never know... but why does she resent Josh and yet needs him like a mad woman... I understand perfectly well how physical pleasure works and the greed of human lust, but a thing that people need more usually and at the same time is love and affection... people like Devlin think they can have everything whilst valuing little, if that and his big dick is what she sought then she must be as vacuous as her boss... She hasn't just been pushing Josh away, but also almost every other person she knows. The inner Kimmy we catch glimpses of seems complex and troubled, and is doing a great job of fucking over the person she still seems to prize most. I'm not satisfied by all the top notch deviant physical and mental taboo sexuality alone, I want to see why I'm justified in receiving it... Forgive me for suspecting that when KT asked if we would be patient there might be something of the kind awaiting us. It wouldn't be the first time she's done such a thing. Kimmy seemed like she was making some kind of personal break through... and I like to think it wasn't just about how she could keep involving a hapless hubby into hyping up her burgeoning kink... and keeping him around 'cause he seems like he would really be trustworthy to nurture and care for her offspring as well. Not to mention I'm a wee bit worried about Josh. He's been scoffed at, mocked, and regarded with contempt by the last person he expected it from, so much so that he has been changed to his considerable detriment... Though totally inadvertently on Kimmy's part.
Bill F Protagoras
2024-03-11 00:18:41 +0000 UTCI’ve kind of been wondering where this longer story is now diverging from the shorter one originally planned. Maybe a longer period of separation and maybe more detail on a revenge plan by Kimmy on Devlin. One thing I’m sure of: Devlin, Kimmy and Josh will be in a room together again, question will be who is in control at that point.
JL23
2024-03-10 22:45:41 +0000 UTCI don’t even think Kimmy fully understands why she started with Devlin. I think her explanations to Josh in the previous chapters are really her first attempt at even trying to figure it out herself. A chance to feel alive again, maybe a subconscious way to get back at Josh, but since I don’t think she knows we can’t either at this point. Then, as CSH and others said, she found out she liked it (or as she puts, her “biology is uniquely attuned” to finding pleasure from hung guys like Devlin), then she found the added thrill of subjugating and humiliating Josh through his own kinks.
JL23
2024-03-10 22:39:20 +0000 UTCI've been thinking about the next book... how about "So Much for that Unity of Opposites!" as a title... Or Kimmy-The Compleat Unity...
Bill F Protagoras
2024-03-10 18:04:04 +0000 UTCWell put l totally agree... l like QUITE evil it puts it in its non-Romantic place. Evil Kimmy is enticing, Abusive Kimmy not so much...
Bill F Protagoras
2024-03-10 16:44:46 +0000 UTCEdit: replying to Pete’s important notions and questions. She didn’t have Josh’s concent so yes, her sadism is not moral. Josh’s consent was based on lies and half truths. Makes her quite evil, an abuser. Healthy bdsm relationship, all power to them, nothing wrong at all. Masochists and sadists are equal, but the one who has the power, doms and sadists get power handed to them by the sub/masochists, consent. My marriage isn’t conventional in all parts either, but is based on honesty and consent.
Karl
2024-03-10 16:28:50 +0000 UTCC, my only discrepancy is that cultivation is a cooperative venture and right now the only thing that these three are likely to reap is the whirlwind... Also, and this is an aesthetic question, I'm not a great fan of tautologies even when I resort to them myself. I do it because I like it will never please me as much as a judicious distortion using language.
Bill F Protagoras
2024-03-10 16:10:13 +0000 UTCWithin BDSM they are equally moral... in 'real' life one is considered worse than the other and in ethical and legal terms is reprehensible. Morality is a grey area... it is what is considered acceptable by consensus, in this way similar to the rules of a game but sadly with real consequences that are often unjust, like witchhunting to choose an example totally at random.
Bill F Protagoras
2024-03-10 16:04:21 +0000 UTCBut as Wittgenstein pointed out when you break the rules you are not playing the game, and clearly each of the players in this case is playing a different game... or am I sorely mistaken?
Bill F Protagoras
2024-03-10 15:49:06 +0000 UTCMy question is still why? It's all well and good that you enjoy BDSM, but it doesn't jibe with her desperate clinging with her affectionate love for Josh. It's a kind of game, but it doesn't appear to be one Josh can abide any longer. You can't have your cake and eat it too, if one person won't go along with the rules of the game. It becomes abuse... and unless someone deals with the Gordian Knot, the title of the book becomes a prediction and the Waters as a legal civil contract will be dissolved and neither will be happy. This will mean that Devlin will have called Solomon's bluff, cheerfully tearing Josh in two and leaving Kimmy holding the baby. As for Sadism if you read his works you discover it is not just a lifestyle choice it's also a critique of the rich and powerful, like the Stones, doing what the fuck they like to other people as though they were property. There was a reason de Sade was in the Bastille! It was for a bit of non-lite political correction. I think here we all use the term sadistic as a description of a way of dealing with life which may be good, bad or indifferent depending on circumstances... And realistically isn't the entire point of BDSM to indulge victimhood "standing on the edge of demise" and exploiting the flesh of others to an extent that doesn't end in imprisonment. Perhaps we should consult de Sade... Naturally, BDSM includes the element of choice you don't have to be good or bad... you can be either just like in real life. Whatever that is?
Bill F Protagoras
2024-03-10 15:40:38 +0000 UTCThat's a really insightful take, CSH. You elucidate a question we haven't discussed at all yet when you say "That she liked it is not a moral judgment." We've tended to condemn Kimmy for being sadistic: "She's sadistic!" We say as a criticism. But, BDSM is a very popular kink. So, do the masochists somehow have the moral high ground? They're "victims" while the sadists are "evil"? Or is sadism just as moral as masochism?
Pete
2024-03-10 14:42:36 +0000 UTCKimmy did those things because she liked doing them. Its probably not why she started but it is why she continued. She involved Josh because he showed signs of liking it, too. That she liked it is not a moral judgment, i think the text pretty solidly indicates that she gets a thrill from it. Despite what she told Devlin about ‘I made him eat me’ that first time, go back and read the scene. She actually tried to stop Josh, but he insisted, unkowingly thus revealing to her that she shared with Devlin sexual delight in being nasty to her husband. She willfully started the affair but her sadism like Josh’s masochism, was accidently discovered and then cultivated by all three of them.
CSH
2024-03-10 10:46:54 +0000 UTCDepending on how this series finishes, the next one could focus on Kimmy's revenge on Devlin. The "No Stone Unturned" series could focus on Kimmy dating Devlin, only to them cuckold and humiliate him (as he did to Josh) with Devlins own brothers, or perhaps his father, the Patriarch of the Stone family. Perhaps his name is Damian, or David, and while he like his son may have the biggus dickus that Kimmy so likes, he might also be far more intelligent than Devlin. Her cuckolding of Devlin could this take on layers, and the series could be about her slowly destroying Devlin, and perhaps even taking the entire Stone empire for herself. Along the way, we watch her wrestle with, and eventually accept, her new appetites and desires.
Pete
2024-03-10 06:54:54 +0000 UTCEvery word you wrote makes sense Mike, yet still I feel sorry for Kimmy and hope they can make their marriage work, weird I know. Btw, just a funny coincidence about your username, there’s a rocker called Michael Monroe, from Hanoi Rocks, living in my city and he is also called Mike usually.
Karl
2024-03-10 06:21:18 +0000 UTCPragmatically it would be useful for Kimmy to betray Devlin in turn, and artful.
Bill F Protagoras
2024-03-10 06:00:22 +0000 UTCYou are right JL23. I forgot Kimmy’s and Devlins first sex scenes, in the car in the parking lot and the first full on sex. That does make it look a lot like that at Tiffanys they didn’t get in all the way.
Karl
2024-03-10 05:53:01 +0000 UTCHell hath no fury like anybody scorned, not just a woman, lets face it! To look at the book we are given no evidence of Devlin's acumen. Rather we are given reason to believe Daddy is not impressed! Devlin's never seemed like more than window dressing to me... but what would I know I've always been too busy doing the work to look into the profound mystery of what boss's do. It must be important because when they fail at it they usually get a generous golden handshake on their ignominious way out the door.
Bill F Protagoras
2024-03-10 05:29:13 +0000 UTCThe thing that puzzles me still is why Kimmy PURSUED a sexual mess with Josh's bully. It especially puzzles me because it seems to be a riddle to her too. It also goes to the fact that she was gleeful and happy to share in the sadistic debasement of Josh behind his back with the scum who is his enemy. It's one thing to be enraptured of the stretching power of his manhood's ephemeral majesty, but very much another to giggle like a juvenile on riding on Devlin's vicious Merry-Go-Round! Does she feel that Josh connived with her in resigning themselves to an unassuming contentment? She was definitely quick off the mark to ridicule and conspire in making a fool of her husband for slurping her tainted cheating cunt. What twisted unreasoning made that such a jolly jape! What about Kimmy's predicament converted her quondam lover into her favourite slapstick scapegoat? What made the Waters compatibility go all askew and bound for Neverland!? We still have a lot to learn about this and so much more... What was it Chekhov said about a double purchase of strappons?
Bill F Protagoras
2024-03-10 04:49:19 +0000 UTCA carefully crafted not too amusing title... happy walks and shade... all in the intonation...
Bill F Protagoras
2024-03-10 03:29:42 +0000 UTCI don't feel SORY for Kimmy she brought it on herself and dragged Josh into this mess! Like Josh said this wasn't his thing he never wanted any of this...His perceived kink . Was manufactured by Kimmy and to some extent Devlin. I don't blame Devlin because he is what has always been. Kimmy on the other hand is the Devil in the water! Josh has been betrayed in all the ways a husband could be. Kimmy is not sorry to her the end justified the means. She beyond cruel . She is his enemy and the Villain of this tragic Masterpiece KT has created. Josh needs to separate himself from her and anyone around her. She is the poisonous snake in the woods. The baby could be the spawn of Satan as for as he is concerned formed out of evil intent! No real regards for him. Other then for him as far as Kimmy is concerned "Shut out and just take it . Mister Coward and weakling...you don't have any balls other than what I give you! Bravo Josh get the Hell out of Dodge!!! Never settle for bread crumbs ..Josh knows his worth!!!
Mike Monroe
2024-03-10 01:57:13 +0000 UTCIt would be inconsistent of the narrative from her first full on sexual encounters with Devlin (that we see) for them to have had full on sex at Tiffany’s. Could have been more than just the tip, and certainly enough for her to get pregnant, but I think she was telling Josh the truth about it a few chapters when they were having sex. The other thing I’m not sure about is Kimmy’s now total disrespect for Devlin and his business sense. She’s talked about him these last few chapters like he’s a total idiot, but I don’t ever recall her talking about him that negatively before. Admittedly I don’t remember much from the few times they’ve talked business, but it’s always felt like she’s been somewhat complementary of him in her own head (in the “he’s more than just a big dick” kind of way). But since he betrayed her, now he’s this moron who’s clueless at everything but sex. Kind of feels like that’s part fury, part calculation to try and knock him down a peg in Josh’s eyes.
JL23
2024-03-10 00:14:33 +0000 UTCThe reason for the argument has never been made plain, but from what I recall the story was Devlin was talking in some offensive terms, revealing his privileged arrogance... also there's never been a clearly unbiased version of the sexual struggle... And my understanding of later "courtship" scenes makes the idea that Devlin could put just the tip of his club like dick in Kimmy's unprepared tight little cunny seem frankly preposterous. But who knows accounts are sketchy... Yet the fact that Karina felt bad that Kimmy was not giving Josh a satisfactory explanation causes doubts about Kimmy's on the record versions. Karina's conscience was urging her to phone Josh to tell him what HAD happened...
Bill F Protagoras
2024-03-10 00:05:56 +0000 UTCIn evolutionary terms if your are fighting for mating privileges it makes sense to return hurt for hurt. When unable to flee the same applies, making death or extreme injury too costly for an attacker. Yet in mental, verbal or emotional disputes we tend to give tit for tat even when it's actually to our disadvantage... Those chemicals we release don't know what they're needed for...
Bill F Protagoras
2024-03-09 23:39:49 +0000 UTCFor impregnation tip is enough, I’m not denying that, but the way the whole Tiffany scene is being carefully danced around and the truth kept in the darkness, the ”it was just the tip” feels like a lie Kimmy keeps telling to herself too, like saying and thinking that makes it true. I wouldn’t be surprised if it would be revealed Kimmy and Devlin had full on sex at Tiffanys. Or maybe it was told or hinted at already, I can’t remember half of what I’ve read at this point.
Karl
2024-03-09 20:51:25 +0000 UTCPeople don't seem to realize sometimes the tip is enough...
Bill F Protagoras
2024-03-09 19:55:47 +0000 UTCWhen we are hurt we frequently pass the hurt on, perhaps our minds have some difficulty distinguishing between the hurting of physical and mental origins... certainly grief can sting as much as a physical blow... and the rituals of mourning are manifested physically. It rings true that two fairly peaceful men should explain their feelings through a violent analogy... Pete is constrained by his conscience (& his love of his kids)... Josh is distressed after what must be the longest day of his life that his wife drops another divisive block of marble narrowly missing him as though he were its target! Yours is a very cogent observation that I only seek to elaborate on... Hope you are feeling better...
Bill F Protagoras
2024-03-09 19:33:41 +0000 UTCAgreed..Josh is no coward or weak for leaving Kimmy ..He should not even have looked back...This has never been about him! I was always what Kimmy wanted ..what Kimmy needed...Josh never asked for this! This whole story is about Kimmy and it seems her revenge against Josh because she blames him for her miscarriage. How he get blamed is beyond me! Her selfishness has brought this outcome. It is time for Josh to remove himself from this craziness! She is not sorry for any of this! The unforgivable part to me is her being pregnant with Devlin's baby...even the possibility should end there relationship. If it's his then he should co-parenting but if not ..go no contact .. divorce and move on with his life in Rome or wherever he wants to go. This is not a healthy relationship..period !!! She has betrayed and hurt him more than anyone could ..He needs to be done with her and anything around her!
Mike Monroe
2024-03-09 17:18:36 +0000 UTCGreat callback KT . "I’d fight for you to the end. I’d fight to the death for you. Problem is you’re the villain. You’re the enemy. You’re the one who wants to destroy me.” Where Josh is leaving and running away from Kimmy. And then in Learning Lessons you had the beautiful line at the very end (my favorite of the book) after Pete ran Tyler off and he is saying to Jess "I'd fight one hundred men to the death for you if only you choose me" or something to that effect! Basically wanting to still be with her after everything she did to him. So both lines are similar (husbands wanting to fight for their wives love) but end with different connotations (Josh leaving, Pete begging to stay) I don't know if this intentional on KT's part but I like it. In the words of a famous director "It's like poetry it rhymes"
Andrew Mellein
2024-03-09 05:28:39 +0000 UTCI think it's more Josh gaging Kimmy to put him first over Devlin than simply saying go get a abortion. He wants to see if she is loyal to him or is still using him. Remember he also says your obsessed with him and are going back to work with him in the morning. Also he just witnessed her getting the fucking of her life with the man he hates, finds out he they have been carrying on a affair behind his back, and she springs she's pregnant and she didn't use protection at Tiffany's. So I think words are the only thing he has left no matter hurtful they are. In this chapter he knows his marriage is done and pretty much implies to KImmy to go screw Devlin because he doesn't care anymore. I don't think he would want to be a father to his bully Devlin's kid (conceived through his wife's affair) a lot of people wouldn't in real life.
Andrew Mellein
2024-03-09 05:11:44 +0000 UTCThe chapter after the chair throwing confirmed Devlin didn’t learn about her miscarriage from Kimmy, and that they never discussed it themselves, so they were fighting about something else at Tiffany’s party. I don’t recall if Kimmy ever said exactly what they were sparring about at the party, but it doesn’t seem like it was that.
JL23
2024-03-08 22:25:17 +0000 UTCWas it revealed that what got Kimmy so riled up at Tiffanys was somehow related to pregnancy? I have such a bad memory, but did Kimmy say something a long those lines, that she felt her womanhood was questioned by Devlin and he hit her in a sore spot with the miscarriage? Oh the irony if Devlin got Kimmy physically fighting and eventually ”almost” fucking him (that always sounds like such s lie, ”it was just the tip”) saying the same shit he said to Josh, about needing to deposit the sperm deeper or whatever big dick promotion he said.
Karl
2024-03-08 21:02:58 +0000 UTCYeah, I don’t think she’s being fake, she’s just incapable of truly seeing other’s POV and is also not really great at self evaluation. The pregnancy is another area where she hasn’t done much evaluation of her own feelings, let alone how Josh would perceive. Was part of the initial attraction to Devlin at Tiffany’s that he could give her the one thing Josh couldn’t, even on a sub-conscious level? Maybe, but she’s just walled herself off from even contemplating it. Josh is the father, and that’s that. These are the things I feel like she needs to fully explore in her own mind before she could ever explain it to Josh. Therapists would make a mint with these two.
JL23
2024-03-08 20:14:14 +0000 UTCI think it’s really hard to judge exactly what he wants right now. In the heat of the moment, he’s angry, hurt…and looking to say things to hurt Kimmy. Which he basically admits. I think he’s more of a mind to what Tracey said, he can’t be with Kimmy if the child is Devlin’s, and he can’t be a father to that child. But also, those kind of feelings can change over time. Their marriage wouldn’t be worth trying to save if he would try to force that kind of extreme solution on her, and I don’t really believe he would. But words have consequences, and you can’t always take them back. I do think those words, and how he spoke of the baby, will stick with Kimmy.
JL23
2024-03-08 16:49:07 +0000 UTCBut is that what he meant? Seems to me he meant what he said.
CSH
2024-03-08 16:26:59 +0000 UTCOne of the greatest shames of snobbery in language is that youse as a plural of you is dismissed as a vulgar colloquialism. It can make who you're talking to much clearer!
Bill F Protagoras
2024-03-08 14:14:50 +0000 UTCYes, Donkatsu AND is where they hide all the good stuff... the cunning bastards! Oh, and I think Kimmy got too impatient because she was overcome by the brief intensity of feeling through her resumed intimacy with Josh... well, her perception of it. Then she tragically overplayed her hand. That was some great exegesis, by the way! Sorry I was remiss in not telling you so directly!
Bill F Protagoras
2024-03-08 13:44:55 +0000 UTCAt last! Life is very rarely simple, reducing things to black and white may be occasionally useful, but it is a painfully limiting approach to comprehension. I'm now grateful my parent's constantly reminded me and my brother not to be too clever for our own good. Kimmy probably had it inculcated into her from an early age by her Asian Christian parents that hard work and family values would bring her the happiness she needed. Though she has, as children do, learnt otherwise through bitter experience, she still has those simplistic ideas graven in a chamber of her heart and they drive her relentlessly in unintended mistaken directions. My parents would say she gets too big for her boots... but they both started working after completing the absolute minimum required education, so what would they know... we've all got problems. At the moment the Waters have more than their fair share. It's great that someone thought of the idea of there being a fair share of shitty things like problems... What I meant to say was love both of youse's conclusions! Best yet, for my taste.
Bill F Protagoras
2024-03-08 13:33:49 +0000 UTCWas there any other reason to tell Josh about the pregnancy than her telling Hyun about it? Without Hyun, Josh doesn’t know about the tests, so she could basically tell Josh at any given time, really show Josh she’s with him, really show she loves him, build back the trust before meeting him like adults, face to face, like two equals. So her need to alleviate her guilt and confide in Hyun put her in dangerous position, if it was guilt she wanted to get off her chest. Very human thing to do, but yet again endangered Kimmy’s relationship with Josh. I feel more and more bad for Kimmy, she seems to have been set for failure, by her own choices sure, but we all make mistakes. How she owns her mistakes now is important, for her own sake too, not just for her marriage. And man, Josh just keeps getting these curveballs, the panties, truth about her infidelity and now the pregnancy. I hope he doesn’t wallow in self pity, anger and turn in to a pile of bitterness and resentment. If he really still love Kimmy and wants to keep loving her, he really needs to start fighting for what he wants. I guess he really doesn’t know what he wants, except go back to before the cheating happened. Is there a comeback for Josh where he doesn’t feel like a fool and how does he think Kimmy will see him if he accepts and forgives everything? I hope love conquers all and Josh will want to fight for her and they can work things out but it seems an impossible mountain to climb atm.
Karl
2024-03-08 12:52:11 +0000 UTCExcellent post Donkatsu. I don’t believe Kimmy’s feelings are fake at all, but the sincerety and truth in her actions are all tainted by her betrayal and seem to always have an ulterior motive. Like you said she is the smartes gal in the room, too smart for herself it seems. I feel bad for her that the big truth she decided to tell Josh backfired so badly, although if she’d be rational about it, she should have seen it coming. Especially since she had to keep manipulating Josh with sex to begin with. She has her head up in her ass quite deep, so to speak.
Karl
2024-03-08 12:36:17 +0000 UTCKat and Karl. You guys are right. Permanent probably isn't the right word there. I do think that's what Hyun wants, but Kimmy isn't probably there emotionally. Plus there are outside factors that you guys pointed out that would make it a challenge. I will say that Kimmy noted that what she planned to get out of her relationship with Hyun isn't what she got, because she walked in for a coldly analytical reason but walked away feeling a much deeper connection then she thought she would have. There was enjoyment and love there she hadn't expected. It's why I brought it up, because the reality is, at this point, Hyun is all she has left. Hyun is the only one who loves her and hasn't rejected her. Hyun didn't make her feel like shit or push back on her affair with Devlin. Yes, she made it clear she doesn't like him and thinks Kimmy shouldn't be with him, but she didn't make Kimmy feel stigmatized for her actions. Hell, they even share a similar fate, at least in the moment. Both admitted a hurtful truth and their partners walked out livid and angry for it. There's a significant level of commiseration to be had there. Yes, we know that Kimmy's scenario is totally different, but Hyun doesn't and lying Kimmy is unlikely to portray this as her fault. She already threw the whole hole scenario on Josh and Devlin anyway, at least to Hyun. It will be interesting to see how this pans out. A lot of the timeline is highly dependent on where Josh goes, how long he stays away, and how long Kimmy is willing to wait.
L_S87
2024-03-08 12:09:15 +0000 UTCThose are great points Karl, and you can somewhat see that dynamic in how Josh left the bedroom then stopped to see if Kimmy followed, because that's clearly what he wanted, a demonstration of love. And Kimmy didn't show up immediately because she wanted him to come back to her, to be the one to give in. Ultimately she did follow him, but only after it was clear he wasn't coming back. This has me so twisted up. My desire for a HEA is so conflicted with the reality that Kimmy brought this on herself because of the choices she made. You can't keep kicking the dog and then be surprised when it bites you back.
L_S87
2024-03-08 11:59:47 +0000 UTCGreat chapter, KT. Hard to see how they come back from this in any semblance of their earlier love and regard. This is worse than the Max/Maggie breakup, since Max's kink was out in the open and played a key role in their activities as a couple for a while. Josh now knows he was never a part of Kimmy's thing with Devlin. We seem to have a split between those who think Kimmy is still gaslighting Josh and those who think she is unable to understand anyone else's POV. I embrace the power of AND. Kimmy will not admit to enjoying her time with Devlin, craving his cock, and getting off on the humiliation of Josh. Think of those early scenes where she went to the restaurant or other places and came back sans panties but full of Devlin's essence, serving up her cream pie to Josh and laughing about it with Devlin, the "AA" pillow talk with Devlin, and, of course, the Cayman scene. Kimmy still thinks this is her due as the smartest gal in the room and for all she has given up to get here and for all that her income means for the family. Why would Josh give any of this up over a mere matter of honour and fidelity? He must be daft! If it takes a bigger cock to give the "family" a baby then so be it. Toughen up, buttercup. Kimmy is still remarkably dense about how her behaviour has affected Josh's entire posture toward her. Another tweak in the story board here or there, maybe a bit more truth dribbled out and that should fix it, don't ya think? The gaslighting crowd looks at her hurt puppy demeanour and concludes it is all fake. I don't agree, I think she is genuinely hurt and sad that Josh has not come around either due to her gaslighting or to the "objective" truth of their situation, especially now that she has presented them with a baby. To this end I think she looks at the gaslighting as a mere tactic that worked well for her during her most deceptive period and should continue to work now that she has come (sort of) clean with Josh. From her POV, this dribbled out truthiness is as much as Josh really needs and therefore some continued persuasion/gaslighting is entirely justified for the greater future life together.
Donkatsu
2024-03-08 11:46:49 +0000 UTCYes Karl... a miscarriage... in every sense of the word...
Bill F Protagoras
2024-03-08 11:13:26 +0000 UTCIs this punishment enough? Is it justice well served that in the balance she brought it on herself and made a bitter shrew of the man she loved/ loves? and is now more haunted by the mourning of their passed hopes... and he gets to live on crushing under the hefty weight of his bully's vainglorious petty rod's grinding victory... and what once was the comfort of their humble ambition rots in the lugubrious shadows of sneaky moaning and the thrashing knotted self-imposed flogging of regret... Everybody happy now that the beam of the scales bobs and sways and settles over the womb of the sin-stained thighs of a woman taken in adultery again... while the cuckold chokes down the pittance of his bitter bowl of leftover gruel? They brought it on themselves the neighbours of Ajax will prate...
Bill F Protagoras
2024-03-08 10:58:51 +0000 UTCOh man, a miscarriage and Kimmy putting the blame on Josh 🤯😱
Karl
2024-03-08 09:04:04 +0000 UTCIn addition I would love Kimmy and Josh to meet in equal terms, not either of them crawling to the other. Although part of me wants Kimmy to pursue Josh, go after him. I feel she has lot to prove that she really wants him. I might need to reread a lot of stuff but where has she really shown Josh that he is who se wants and that she’s really worked for the benefit of their marriage? Pursuing Josh could show that she is still serious about him and their marriage, I feel Josh needs a lot of assurance atm. Also Josh really needs to meet Kimmy half way. Really work towards forgiving her and start to build trust with her. He can’t just run away, stay passive and think Kimmy will come and make things well again. He needs to be an active participant in building back their marriage. But his reactions will depend on what Kimmy will do. I hope they meet in equal terms like adults and really talk how they feel and listen to what each other say. But that kind of situation is still long way ahead I guess.
Karl
2024-03-08 08:46:27 +0000 UTCI know, it left me heartbroken althoug it was long coming. I really want them to come back together but I feel chances are slim. Both have so much to come to terms with. I really hope they will find the love and understanding for each other, but that wont happen before Josh is ready to forgive and understand his own needs and boundaries. And for Kimmy to understand why she did what she did and who she is and what she really wants in life, is it really Josh she wants. And for Josh to figure out if the new Kimmy is who he loves and if he is really ready to over come his feelings of being a fool and a coward and see his manhood in a new perspective and understand that his fantasies do not make him a weak man. Kimmy becoming angry feels so harsh, understandable but harsh. It was long coming that Josh leaves and I feel like this too was result of Kimmy’s mindgames. Like Josh said something in the lines of that he was embarrased that he had sex or felt he submitted/gave in to having sex with her, either way Kimmy’s reveal after sex looks really manipulative. She could have had a serious face to face conversation with him without any extra effort to have him stay, really build trust without sex that has been her main weapon.
Karl
2024-03-08 08:35:27 +0000 UTCGood point Chris. Kimmys relationship with Devlin is a key part of if and how J&K can go forward with their marriage and work their problems. Kimmy is still gravitating a lot around Devlin and it will be thrilling to see which side will win, her body or mind, pleasure or revenge. And how Josh plays into that.
Karl
2024-03-08 08:05:22 +0000 UTCKat, I agree. I don’t see why Hyun would bring Kimmy their lives when she’s clearly having a personal crisis and her marriage in trouble. There’s more possible harm in a relationship with Kimmy, especially considering Sophie and how Meyer will react, although I don’t think Hyun should live her life thinking about what Meyer wants. JL23 that was a great analysis. I’ve been thinking about Kimmy’s and Josh’s love and loving. Who are they in love with anymore. I feel that Kimmy is going through a more profounf crisis than Josh. I feel like Josh’s crisis is about confronting his bullying and coming to term with his fantasies, and Kimmy added dealing with her betrayal in the mix. But who is Josh in love with atm? Kimmy’s crisis seems to have brought out a new Kimmy. I think the question js, is this the real Kimmy or crisis Kimmy? Which brings me to the question is Josh in love with the idea of a relationship with Kimmy, what it was before Tiffany’s. Same for Kimmy. Like JL23 said she needs to figure out who she is and what she really wants, from life in general and from their marriage. And the big question is what she loves about Josh. Now it seems like all their relationship revolves around Kimmy’s betrayal and Josh’s kinks and his forgiveness. Which is not surprising since they are going through a crisis. Like JL23 and others have said, time apart will do good for them if they figure out who they are and what they want and if they are still compatible and if they still are in love with person they’ve become or are they in love with the past or an idea of a person and an idea of a marriage. Time will show if they have grown apart or if they can still find each other.
Karl
2024-03-08 08:02:02 +0000 UTCRealizing that Kimmy talked about Josh’s reaction to the baby bringing bad luck when we’re in Chapter 13 of Book 13. Just a coincidence this all happened in this chapter?
JL23
2024-03-08 06:02:58 +0000 UTCYet. Can’t keep checking out and expect to be able to come back. Needed to stay and sort it out, but I think they could be done. It’s sad.
Tracey52
2024-03-08 04:29:01 +0000 UTCL-S87, I think Kimmy and Hyun having a real long term relationship isn’t likely. Hyun is still closeted about her sexuality. What is more important to Hyun, her daughter or Kimmy? I say this because I don’t think Meyer would approve of his daughter being involved in this, not because of her mom’s sexuality, but ending up with her Aunt Kimmy as a step-mom. Hyun seems so timid, as well. I can’t picture her fighting with Meyer over Kimmy.
Kat
2024-03-08 04:24:11 +0000 UTCWhat Josh should have said is “if it’s Devlin’s, I can’t be with you.”
Tracey52
2024-03-08 04:17:15 +0000 UTCKind of feels like the best hope for the marriage at this point is for them to take a break from each other. I hate to keep using Geoff/Nia as a comparison, cause they’re different people with different problems, but I think what they have in common with Kimmy/Josh is they haven’t really dealt with the fundamental question of who they are and what they want. And I think in similar fashion they’re only going to be able to do it by themselves. Josh needs to figure out if his love for Kimmy can ever outweigh his disgust at her betrayal. Also, what he really wants in a relationship, are his kinks stronger that the self-revulsion that he feels having them. And he can’t do that around Kimmy, everything she does now is clouded in his mind as manipulation, he can’t decipher the truths she provides without thinking of the betrayals she committed…and thus dismissing everything she says. For Kimmy, she needs to come to terms on a few things. First, she’s never reconciled to the fact that no matter how much she thinks she understands what Josh wants, and what is good for him, it doesn’t match the reality of what he’s actually feeling. She wants to simply bulldoze through his fears and anger at her betrayals with a mix of words, manipulation, and appeals to his baser desires. She clings to his offer of absolution in the hotel room without acknowledging it was proffered when he had no confirmation of the depths of her badness. And part of this is because she’s never really reconciled what she did, and why she did it, in her own mind. Even what she offered in the previous chapters she admits was mostly thrown out on the fly, in her continued effort to do whatever it took to prevent Josh from leaving her. Now that he has, maybe she will actually do that level of introspection on her own actions. And maybe then she can talk to Josh about it without him just feeling it’s part of a continued manipulation. You could be right, that Kimmy will now turn her anger (her true defense mechanism - the anger keeps her from feeling the despair) on Josh for abandoning her, which will prevent her from this level of self evaluation. But like Josh, I think the only chance she has to do this is to be apart from him.
JL23
2024-03-08 04:13:12 +0000 UTCNo idea. I'm more concerned with what Kimmy is more upset about in this moment. Josh leaving? Or the revenge plan slipping through her fingers? I think with Josh literally walking out the door, the Devlin shit would be far from more pressing matters. Josh still plays second fiddle to her obsession with Devlin, whatever form that is. Sexual or not. I think Josh was a pivotal role in that revenge, and it just walked.
Chris K
2024-03-08 03:42:41 +0000 UTCI agree he was in a no win situation.
Andrew Mellein
2024-03-08 03:33:16 +0000 UTCGood call do you think Kimmy is done sexually with Devlin? She hates his guts but sometimes she can’t resist him. Remember Kimmy thought of a threesome with her, Hyun and Devlin! It was originally Josh but then she mentioned Devlin!
Andrew Mellein
2024-03-08 03:29:59 +0000 UTCI kinda hope Josh stops by Hyuns. He's knows Kimmy and her have been hanging out and maybe he wants advice. Everyone thought Hyun was cheating on Meyer, so who better to ask about how to handle this. Hyun is under the impression Josh knew about Devlin all along. That would throw another wrench in the works for sure.
Chris K
2024-03-08 03:27:40 +0000 UTCYeah, Karl, seeking release from his grief in an affair makes no sense, Josh is not that shallow. Sure Karina is his friend as well as Kimmy's, so it makes sense to connect with her for obvious reasons, also she knows Devlin for what he is! I really hope there's no big leap in time. It made sense for Nia and Geoff, they had a much longer term relationship. Still, KT will know what's for the best... Geoff having other options and a new career actually increased the poignancy of his reconciliation with Nia and she was gutted by the split, and Odie showed the influence of sharing a beloved child.
Bill F Protagoras
2024-03-08 03:23:15 +0000 UTCJosh really told her off. And you know what would be even more devastating. Is if Kimmy in her grief at Josh leaving had another miscarriage! Kimmy would never forgive Josh after that! Josh already split on her twice: Rome and Meyers. This is like the third time your out!
Andrew Mellein
2024-03-08 03:21:39 +0000 UTCThe Waters are the protagonists... like it or not, and Devlin the antagonist.
Bill F Protagoras
2024-03-08 02:54:11 +0000 UTCKat is right, there are many possibilities, not the least of which is they could still wind up together. I think this chapter makes that a very slim possibility, but it's still there. I don't think Kimmy, once she's cried all this out of her system, is going to look favorably on Josh. I could be wrong, but I don't think she will. Ultimately, it depends on how long Josh stays away and how he comes back, if he does. Right now he clearly doesn't want to. Kimmy's relationship with Hyun is an interesting X factor. I mentioned a long time ago I could see her winding up with Hyun permanently if their marriage explodes, and I see that being more likely than ever. I don't see Kimmy winding up with Devlin. I never have. Yes, Josh is right, there are things about him she obsesses over. Marriage and love aren't any of those in relation to him. Hyun on the other hand... I could see a scenario where Josh feels guilty, tries to track Kimmy down and finds her at Hyun's doing things he never imagined...
L_S87
2024-03-08 02:40:37 +0000 UTCWow, KT. And here I thought the last chapter was well done. I have no words. None, for how amazing this was. Horrific, but amazing. I know I shouldn't, but I feel SO sorry for Kimmy here. I feel like she, for once, was trying to do the right thing, for what felt like, to her, the right reason. And it completely blew up in her face. This is what her betrayal sewed. A Josh who is completely unable to trust her. Someone that has been so twisted by her manipulations that he now calls HER, the woman he loves, and who loves him, The Enemy. And I hate it. It feels right that it happened, yet emotionally its oblivion. I loath how this turned out. Id rather Kimmy have gotten her way, Josh naively ceded her some trust, and they worked this, however slowly, out. Instead we have ruin. And I don't think Kimmy is going to take him back. I feel like Josh is going to have a Max moment, decide he was too harsh, and Kimmy's going to be an inferno of rage that he did this. Her anger at Devlin will shift to Josh, she'll go to Hyun for consolation, and their marriage will be a hairs breadth from collapse. Because as much as Kimmy is devastated here, and still professes her love, that same love is going to make her livid that Josh left her sobbing and pregnant when she poured her heart out to him. Not to mention how cruel some of his words were. They may be justified, but it won't matter to Kimmy. She lives in her own reality when it comes to things like this. I may be almost as twisted up about this as Josh is. Well done, KT. I hate it. Which is a good thing. Honest.
L_S87
2024-03-08 02:26:05 +0000 UTCI agree Karl. Before I would have said “Do It” but after reading this chapter it would make Josh look petty and spiteful. Josh is the protagonist of this story it wouldn’t be a good look. At least Josh still has his wedding ring and he didn’t toss it sorta similar to Max in Maggie when he took her ring!
Andrew Mellein
2024-03-08 02:24:01 +0000 UTCI have a different take on this ...there is no way Josh could stay with Kimmy being pregnant with Devlins baby...Sorry Unpopular opinion but I agree with Josh! There is no way he could be with her and she have his baby... That is the most F up thing that he could allow..Period...That is the price to keep Josh!!! Good for him not just laying down and taking her BS talk of its our baby...The Hell it's not ..Do DNA test... figure it out ..but either way he should be out of this Toxic relationship with Kimmy...enough is enough of her nonsense!!!
Mike Monroe
2024-03-08 02:22:11 +0000 UTCI Am! BY JOHN CLARE I am—yet what I am none cares or knows; My friends forsake me like a memory lost: I am the self-consumer of my woes— They rise and vanish in oblivious host, Like shadows in love’s frenzied stifled throes And yet I am, and live—like vapours tossed Into the nothingness of scorn and noise, Into the living sea of waking dreams, Where there is neither sense of life or joys, But the vast shipwreck of my life’s esteems; Even the dearest that I loved the best Are strange—nay, rather, stranger than the rest. I long for scenes where man hath never trod A place where woman never smiled or wept There to abide with my Creator, God, And sleep as I in childhood sweetly slept, Untroubling and untroubled where I lie The grass below—above the vaulted sky.
Bill F Protagoras
2024-03-08 02:18:58 +0000 UTCI agree, Andrew. The problem is, even if it is Josh's and she gets the results, this break is so harsh, and Kimmy being Kimmy, she's just as liable to throw said results in his face and try to hurt him for hurting her. Then she'll be the one walking away, with Josh chasing. And I'm not even sure she'd accept him back, because she's proven to have a pretty vindictive streak. Will be interesting to see where this goes.
L_S87
2024-03-08 02:14:31 +0000 UTCThe Collar BY GEORGE HERBERT I struck the board, and cried, "No more; I will abroad! What? shall I ever sigh and pine? My lines and life are free, free as the road, Loose as the wind, as large as store. Shall I be still in suit? Have I no harvest but a thorn To let me blood, and not restore What I have lost with cordial fruit? Sure there was wine Before my sighs did dry it; there was corn Before my tears did drown it. Is the year only lost to me? Have I no bays to crown it, No flowers, no garlands gay? All blasted? All wasted? Not so, my heart; but there is fruit, And thou hast hands. Recover all thy sigh-blown age On double pleasures: leave thy cold dispute Of what is fit and not. Forsake thy cage, Thy rope of sands, Which petty thoughts have made, and made to thee Good cable, to enforce and draw, And be thy law, While thou didst wink and wouldst not see. Away! take heed; I will abroad. "The Choler," Herbert like many in the past couldn't do a spelling check on the net...
Bill F Protagoras
2024-03-08 02:09:00 +0000 UTCCruel sounds right to me... not Josh's finest moment.
Bill F Protagoras
2024-03-08 01:55:53 +0000 UTCI woild actually think less of Josh a bit if he had an affair. I wouldn’t blame him, he’s a mess and in a horrible situation, but would feel like it would be an actual weakness for a change. It’s just not who he is, so the instigative factor or motivation would be something unjoshly, revenge or getting even worst of the reasons, sorrow also not healthy nor fair for other participant.
Karl
2024-03-08 01:47:26 +0000 UTCI can see why it's a valid and defensible reaction from his perspective and why it would be something she could never forgive. And he knows that too, but he can't not express that. Just an awful place for both of them to be in.
JL23
2024-03-08 01:45:02 +0000 UTCAgreed. Asking her if she'll "get rid of it," if it's Devlin's, is a pretty cruel thing to say to a woman who's had a miscarriage. Maybe cruel is too harsh? But "insensitive" feels too lenient.
Pete
2024-03-08 01:41:08 +0000 UTC“I talk about him because he’s in my way.” Kimmy says this right after talking about how Devlin is a fool for thinking he can start his own company. "He doesn't see what he has. He doesn't see how it works." It sounds as if Kimmy has a professional endgame related to Devlin, that she's never shared with us before. Maybe deposing and replacing him in his father's company?
Pete
2024-03-08 01:37:40 +0000 UTCNot so much a cliff hanger as an empirical experience in gravity!
Bill F Protagoras
2024-03-08 01:11:43 +0000 UTCI want to see Kimmy going to work next chapter and see if she can resist Devlin and get revenge on him! I also think where would Josh go? I don’t think Meyers or Steve is a good place if he wants to avoid Kimmy! I predict someone unlike ly like Karina! If Josh initiated an affair in his grief with Karina would we still look at him the same way. Does two wrongs make a right. Just speculation on my part!
Andrew Mellein
2024-03-08 01:06:08 +0000 UTCI’m totally speechless, Andrew, but can’t wait to find out. There are so many possibilities.
Kat
2024-03-08 01:04:09 +0000 UTC"But her actions had made this moment; her betrayal had carved it from a solid block of marble." I forgive you for being good at what you do... It's just that some day one of those adamantium claws is going to take someone's eye out. It's all a bit of fun till someone gets hurt!
Bill F Protagoras
2024-03-08 00:54:35 +0000 UTCTime jump is possible, like with Geoff and Nia where we picked up 6 months later. Doesn’t feel like it here, I think we’re going to see the immediate aftermath of this. One of things I’ve learned about Kimmy is she’s pretty much incapable of seeing anyone’s perspective other than her own, or the perspective she feels someone else should see. She walled off the notion it could be Devlin’s in her own mind, and she’s convinced she understands Josh better than he does and probably would see the slight chance as a turn on. Make him squirm cause he loves to squirm, even if he won’t admit it. People accuse her of gaslighting Josh but I’ve come to not see it that way. She just is convinced the way she sees things is how everyone else should see things, and if they don’t react in the way she expects…it’s because it’s their fault, not hers. Whether that’s Josh, or Amy, or Devlin. She can admit fault, even admit she’s being manipulative or that Josh is reacting in a defensible way. But there’s always a caveat….yes, Josh has a right to be angry, but if only he saw what he really wanted, if only Devlin listened to her, etc, etc, etc. Yes, I’ve done bad things, Yes, I’ve betrayed Josh….but, but, but. I don’t see her as doing that in an evil or manipulative way anymore….I just think it’s inherit to her personality. She always has to be right, she always has to be in control, and as KT said in comment from another chapter, she always has to win.
JL23
2024-03-08 00:51:35 +0000 UTCKimmy should have got the paternity test results before subjecting Josh to this!
Andrew Mellein
2024-03-08 00:40:03 +0000 UTC"His toes curled the edge of demise’s precipice."
Bill F Protagoras
2024-03-08 00:38:48 +0000 UTCI wonder where this story is going to go next? Anyone have any ideas of what you think the story is going next? I am speechless.
Andrew Mellein
2024-03-08 00:29:27 +0000 UTCBravo KT!, So happy to have another chapter. I can see Kimmy going to Hyun's and not Devlin's if Josh is truly done with her for the moment! I don't think she has a connection with Devlin besides his big tool and after this she will want revenge against him even more. I like how Josh finally called her out with harsh truths. Kimmy doesn't know if it's Josh's baby we know from her POV. And in her one of her POV'S she took a dark seductive thrill that the baby could be Devlin's. Also she had every intention of going back to work with Devlin. So however truthful Kimmy is she still is gaslighting Josh. Although it sounded final for her when Kimmy said don't leave! Could there be a time jump in the future with them separated? Thanks KT, I am battling a fever and this helped make it feel better and is like an early Christmas present! Cant wait for the next chapter and where the story will lead to next!
Andrew Mellein
2024-03-08 00:25:01 +0000 UTCJosh is not a coward. I agree, he didn’t have any good choice here, but to leave. He needs to go somewhere away from her. I feel for Kimmy, too, but as you said, she did this to herself. I was sort of wanting them to find a way back to each other, but I’m also here for the angst, and I feel like we’re in for a lot of that in the future.
Kat
2024-03-08 00:10:44 +0000 UTC"Her hands fell from his wrists and she now she spoke in a hushed tone. “It’s not.” One 'she' too many... take your pick! Deja vu!
Bill F Protagoras
2024-03-08 00:10:06 +0000 UTCUtterly incredible! I am in awe right now. Way to go, Josh! Such powerful writing. I even feel sorry for Kimmy. What an awful horrible mess, but I love it.
Kat
2024-03-08 00:00:10 +0000 UTCSo despite our visit inside her head, she is stupid... How could she be so reckless... she just threw away every foot of ground she had gained and they're back to digging trenches... I knew there had to be something to hobble the progress, but nice move with the cape... and it leaves it open for her to go back to work because why wouldn't she... and if Devlin gets wind of it he'll be chuffed to buggery... but no I refuse to speculate. Sometimes I hate you for being so good at what you do, Wolverine! Right now I'm seeing the Byrne drawing of him sneaking into the Hellfire Club alone... Snikkt! Snikkt! See you on the other side! I need to relax... you're so good at what you do... perhaps another read and a change of pace... You're making Josh most unlikeable...
Bill F Protagoras
2024-03-07 23:46:42 +0000 UTC”You’re the enemy”. Holy shit. This was a powerful chapter. I could feel Josh’s anguish and struggle, wanting Kimmy to follow her when he left the bedroom. And damn, part of me is rooting for Josh and part of me is heartbroken for them. Man, Kimmy has dug herself in this hole, but still I feel for her too. And Josh feeling like a coward, even though he doesn’t have any good choice to make, a fool or a coward in his own mind. Powerful writing.
Karl
2024-03-07 23:31:09 +0000 UTCOof…harsh read (and what a fake out with the chapter title!). But honestly, this was the only realistic reaction Josh could have here, how could he think anything else? And he nails some bullseyes about Kimmy being more obsessed with Devlin than even he is, that she totally just wants to live in denial that it could be Devlin’s, and the reality that she wants to destroy Devlin cause of what he did to her, not really Josh. But he also says some really harsh things about the baby that may be really hard for Kimmy to get over. Not necessarily that Kimmy didn’t earn a harsh reaction, but asking her if she’d get rid of a baby is a really brutal thing to say given their history. His premonition could well be right, but obviously this isn’t the end of the story.
JL23
2024-03-07 23:28:51 +0000 UTCFuck yes!!
Chris K
2024-03-07 23:13:38 +0000 UTCOmg! Thank you, KT!
Kat
2024-03-07 23:05:35 +0000 UTC