DITW 15-1: Lessons from Kerouac and Caesar
Added 2024-07-23 19:07:46 +0000 UTCTWELVE MONTHS LATER
Saturday, October 9
Dorchester played their encore, a rousing rendition of Holding Your Heart, around eleven o’clock. Josh and Meyer were out of the Scotiabank Arena, downtown Toronto, and ordering drinks at the Irish Embassy by eleven-twenty. The waitress escorted them to a booth for four looking out onto Yonge Street, Josh telling her they were expecting two more. Meyer ordered them Guinnesses and the waitress asked Meyer what happened to his arm. Meyer lifted his arm, bound in a cast up to his elbow, the curled tips of his puffy fingers sticking out of the end. “You wouldn’t believe it—bear attack. Up north, in the bush, thing came out of nowhere...” He shook his head and his gaze went faraway, expression grave. The waitress was attractive and Meyer tried some charm.
The waitress said, “You’re right—I don’t believe you.” Meyer had got her smiling.
Josh slid into the far side of the booth across from Meyer, leaving room for the other two who were meeting them here.
Meyer looked offended. “You don’t believe me?”
“No, offense,” she said. “You don’t strike me as the bear-fighting type.”
Meyer cocked an eyebrow. “Who said we were fighting?”
That got a laugh out of her, and Meyer relaxed into the bench, smug-smiling.
Josh said, “Does he look like a man who could fight off a bear or does he look like a man who’d go over the handlebars of a motorcycle?”
The waitress clicked her tongue in her cheek, winking at Josh at shooting a finger pistol. “Got it.” Then to Meyer: “Hope you were wearing a helmet.”
“What’s the point?” Josh said. “There’s no brains in there to protect.”
Meyer showed him a comical look of scrutiny, and the server laughed again. Now she turned her eye on Josh, flirting with him. Then saw his wedding ring.
“I’ll get you guys some drinks,” the woman said and trotted off, weaving through the packed pub. Josh and Meyer regarded each other then laughed, Josh leaning back on the seat-back and looking up at the pub’s high cathedral ceiling. While it was a pub now, it had long ago been one of the burgeoning city’s very first bank buildings. He fell forward again, putting his elbows on the table and shaking his head.
Meyer reached over the table and punched Josh’s shoulder, flopping back and asking him, “You still feel icky?”
“About what?”
“Taking me out—”
“On a date?”
Meyer’s joy turned to scrutiny once again. “You’re such an idiot.”
“I just took you to see your favorite band for your birthday, two dudes out watching a band like Dorchester.”
“You like Dorchester.”
“Two dudes together seeing Dorchester...? It’s suspect.”
“Come on, we’re cousins.” Then he added with theatrical indecency, “Kissing cousins,” bouncing eyebrows and blowing Josh a kiss.
Josh reacted with improvised glee, receiving the air kiss swooning with a hand held over his heart. He admitted, “Ok, it was a pretty great show.”
“Damn right it was. Dorchester’s the best, buddy.”
Josh eyed over Meyer’s shoulders, looking out the windows to the nighttime street, checking the passing pedestrians for their guests arriving. Dread seized his viscera again and his mind raced for the nearest location of his Lorazepam stashes. He put his hand over his heart again, patting the leather and feeling the hard shape of his prescription bottle poke his chest. Then the fun server was back again, two big Guinnesses on a tray, stooping and offloading them onto their table. She asked them if their company would be here soon, holding the empty tray over her bosom.
“Yeah, any minute,” Meyer told her. “They were at the same show tonight.” He thumbed over his shoulder in the vague direction of the Scotiabank Arena.
“Aw, you guys saw Dorchester?”
Josh sipped his drink, nodding, wiping the stout’s cream from his mustache. “We did.” He pointed at Meyer. “I took this guy for his birthday.”
Meyer waved to him with his broken arm. “Thanks, cuz.”
The server said, “I wish I could have got tickets. I wanted to go so bad.”
“You didn’t miss anything,” Josh said. “They were off tonight.”
Meyer eased the server’s obvious disappointment, telling her the truth. “He’s being nice. They were”—Meyer looked up to the high ceiling, searching for the right word—“Incredible. I mean, absolutely amazing. Best show I’ve seen from any band in a few years.”
Meyer and the server talked back and forth about Dorchester and Josh watched the sidewalk again waiting to recognize one of the faces bobbing by. When the server left to attend to another table, Meyer sipped his stout then wiped the foam from his smile. He said, “So what’s happening next weekend?”
Josh closed his eyes. Meyer prompted him again. “Are you going to go or not?”
Josh grumbled and rubbed his forehead. “You’re going to start asking me this now? They’ll be here any minute.”
“Are you going to go or not?” Meyer acting like it was an easy decision.
“No. I mean, yes,” Josh said, irritation overflowing. “Yes, I am going to go. Not during the day, not when anyone else is there. At night. For dinner.”
Meyer was satisfied, yet bothered. “Why didn’t you tell me already? I mean, like, was that so hard?”
Josh wagged his hands, surrendering, not wanting to talk about it, retreating from the table. Yeah, it was pretty fucking hard, Meyer.
Meyer drank, then sighed. He lowered his gaze and muttered, “Colleen’s like almost a year old.”
“Ah, Jesus,” Josh said, really getting riled, patting his prescription bottle for reassurance. “I fucking know, okay?”
Meyer smiled warmly, sympathetically. This wasn’t the first time they’d been heated over this; it was one of the supporting reasons they went away on the motorcycles.
“What about you? Are you going to go?”
“You know I’m going,” Meyer said. “I’m going for Sophie’s sake. During the day. You can come with me if you want. It might be easier that way.”
Josh shook his head no, then caught a familiar face walking right to left behind Meyer, out on the midnight sidewalk. “They’re here,” he told Meyer, a sign for them to drop the personal talk and get into character.
Meyer’s last words were, “Don’t be an asshole,” and it could apply to the situation next weekend, or the one right now.
Steve and his new girlfriend came into the busy pub through the double doors and looked around. Meyer raised a hand and waved until he had their attention. Steve nodded his chin their way, grinning and putting a hand on his girlfriend’s back, walking her through the throng toward the booth. His girlfriend was a black woman, a Nigerian, which he knew through Steve, back when he wasn’t pissed at him.
Meyer whispered, “Shit, what’s her name again?”
Josh covered his mouth and hissed aside, “Mariam,” then Steve and Mariam were at the table. Meyer patted the seat next to him for Mariam to come sit at his side, standing then shaking Steve’s hand. Josh rose languidly.
Steve said to his girlfriend, “This is Josh. He used to work at Swanson with me.”
Josh half-smiled and shook Mariam’s hand. Mariam had a killer smile; long braids, dazzling eyes, and big thighs.
“Pleased to meet you, Josh,” she said, in an English accent. “Steven talks about you well.”
Steve introduced Meyer as a friend and Josh’s cousin, and they all sat down, Steve beside Josh, Mariam across the table next to Meyer.
First topic of order was the Dorchester show; Steve and Mariam had floor seats, while Josh got him and Meyer lower bowl seats, in the 120s; he was still recovering financially from the road trip while unemployed. Soon the waitress was there, taking their order—four more Guinnesses—and she was back fast, the former flirting now a thing of the past. Something he was sure she did with every table.
When Mariam and Meyer broke off into their own discussion, Josh shrank from the table. Steve listened in to Meyer and Mariam for awhile but soon retreated and offloaded his attention to Josh. Josh and the divide between them. Steve grew sullen for a moment. Took a few sips of his beer.
Then he brightened and said to Josh, “Hey, man, we really miss you around the shop.”
“That’s good I guess,” Josh said.
“Sure it is. Harjeet talks about you. When you know what’s what, I think a lot of us would want to see you come back. Big time.”
“I don’t know about that. I don’t know about anything anymore.”
“You been looking?”
“For work? No, not yet. . . . I don’t know what I’m doing.”
There was an long, awkward silence on one side of the table. Meyer and Mariam were yucking it up on the other side, laughing about something. Mariam looked like a real hoot. But she’d renamed Steve “Steven” and that was probably a bad sign. That’s how it started.
Steve blubbered his lips, looking around, and Josh knew it was coming. He’d already forgiven Steve via text. And the whole thing seemed petty in retrospect.
Steve leaned closer, not looking at Josh, saying aside, “I really am sorry, eh?”
“I know. I told you it’s okay.”
“I know. I know you told me. I appreciate that. I mean, listen . . . I’d done it before I even thought about it. You know? As soon as I sent it I sat back and was, like, oh, maybe that wasn’t a good idea.”
“I get it,” Josh said and sipped his Guinness.
Steve waited for Josh to look over, then said, “I was an idiot. I shouldn’t have done that. I’m sorry. I mean it.”
“I know,” Josh said, slimming his lips and nodding like a madman, not wanting to talk about it, not wanting it in his mind anymore.
Mariam had their attention now, saying “That must have been an amazing trip,” Meyer nodding alongside her, enjoying her company. Meyer agreed it was.
Josh said yeah, it was a great trip, then in the silence after, felt awkward enough to elaborate. “It was good for both of us,” looking to Meyer.
Steve said to Mariam, “They have an apartment together.” Her eyes flicked to Josh’s wedding ring, and he instinctively put his hand over it.
“Yeah,” Meyer said, “but we just cleared our schedules and hit the road on some dirt bikes for two weeks. Trails and the wild, all the way down to South America.”
Steve said, “British Columbia to Argentina.”
Meyer nodded more and Josh’s heart felt like a lead weight in his chest. He touched the prescription bottle like an addict. He muttered, “Yup, two weeks.”
Or at least it was supposed to be two weeks.
He wanted to blurt that out. Say to Mariam, well, it was supposed to be two weeks but your stupid boyfriend sent me that goddamn picture. The one Meyer now called the $14,000 photograph.
Bad luck. Bad juju. A transcontinental curse sent via local and international networks; a jinxy data packet opened on a phone five-thousand miles from home. It had ruined the trip. Meyer blamed his broken arm on Steve’s ill-conceived forwarding of that photo he’d seen in the news. Not the news; the Lifestyle section. Ooh-la-fucking-la.
“Hey, you excuse me for a sec?” Josh nudged Steve to let him out of the booth and told everyone he was going to the can. He had a Lorazepam shaken into his palm by the time he shouldered open the men’s room door, situating it under his tongue where it would dissolve in about five minutes. Twenty minutes from now he’d feel it kick in. A Lorazepam, two Guinnesses, maybe three, maybe four, plus whiskey shots for the table, and maybe then he could smile for Steve and Mariam. Mariam. Mariam from Nigeria. Maybe two years ago in another more peaceable universe, a lawyer he knew had helped Mariam immigrate to Canada.
He emptied his bladder into the urinal, jabbed the old style flusher with his leather elbow and went to the mirror. His fucking reflection was awful. Dark circles under watery eyes, long hair, beard. Gaunt. A Bohemian benzo addict and drunk with a broken heart.
Goddamn that fucking beautiful picture of Kimmy.
Comments
It's an interesting suggestion of coercion. Stone Sr. did have incredible leverage over Kimmy. It'd be an entertaining twist to see that he used that leverage for his own "profit," rather than simply sending her to prison.
Pete
2024-07-25 21:51:34 +0000 UTCYou gotta tell us about Redondo Beach.
KT Morrison
2024-07-25 02:22:08 +0000 UTCOK, so it must be time for an old fogeyism. 52 years ago I went back and forth across the USA (Boston-LA-SF-Boston) on two wheels. The then Cannonball Run record (E. 31st St, NYC-Redondo Beach) was just over 42 hours on a motorcycle (I did a leisurely 5 days). The most thrilling part of the trip was the eastbound leg after passing the continental divide in Montana after a slow chug out of Seattle. The signs on I90 in those days read "Welcome to Montana, Daytime speed limit: reasonable and proper; Nighttime speed limit: 65 MPH"). As an aside, will KT ever give us a story based in Redondo Beach, CA? For those of us who move our lips while reading, that place name conjures up a particular image.
Donkatsu
2024-07-24 21:35:36 +0000 UTCLifestyle sections of newspapers generally post positive/braggy type stuff, like engagements, upscale weddings, big graduations, other successes, etc. I may be wrong, but for Kimmy to be in that “non news” section of the paper it must be for some type of success, rich marriage, etc. Or maybe it was a birth announcement for Colleen, and Josh wasn’t in it?
Kat
2024-07-24 20:28:19 +0000 UTCDon't think they would put a disgraced former immigration lawyer coming home from jail in a lifestyle segment. (But I'm also not in Canada, so I have no idea! Lol)
Chris K
2024-07-24 20:12:19 +0000 UTCI’m dying to find out what’s going on with Kimmy. She couldn’t possibly have seen success in such a short time span, and had a baby, as well.
Kat
2024-07-24 20:06:35 +0000 UTCThat would be quite the circle!
Chris K
2024-07-24 20:02:40 +0000 UTCOne other idea on Kimmy. Perhaps she's come full circle and is making high end wicker baskets again to get by. Maybe Hyun is helping and they've built a bit of a following. Something like that would definitely be featured in a Lifestyle section of a newspaper. And perhaps the event relates to an official launch of their company or product? Again probably not, just another scenario that popped into my head as I tried to figure out what kind of event they could be having.
JL23
2024-07-24 19:43:42 +0000 UTCThe Road is grim, but Blood Meridian is devastating, apocalyptic, a horrifying revelation of how unspeakable the world and the creatures that swarm across the barren wasteland of its torn and broken visage can be and are... the uninhibited ravenous greed that drives them so they breed like vermin and devour like carnivorous locusts...
Bill F Protagoras
2024-07-24 19:32:32 +0000 UTCBill no I haven’t but I read The Road. That was a grim book.
Andrew Mellein
2024-07-24 18:07:36 +0000 UTCI would like to think most people feel that way, Bill. I know I certainly did. I think Josh's issue is that he didn't just have a child. He had a child where it was questionable whether it was his or not, for a significant period of time, hell we still don't know and are simply assuming because it's not been made clear. Plus his wife left him under arduous circumstances while he himself was contemplating leaving. Add that into another 12 months where something clearly happened to make things even worse... And it's probably not that surprising he's struggling with taking care of a daughter were assuming is his. Barring proof, it's possible he was completely emotionally disconnected from the entire experience, not even being there for the birth. So he may not feel the level of attachment we would normally assume comes with such an event We need more info!!
L_S87
2024-07-24 16:55:14 +0000 UTCYes, JL, a dreadful irony indeed
Bill F Protagoras
2024-07-24 16:53:47 +0000 UTCThings become clichés for a reason... having a child made me feel a purpose to life that trumped mere biological imperative. How can anyone play cards anymore without thinking of Duck Fart!
Bill F Protagoras
2024-07-24 16:46:29 +0000 UTCYeah, it feels more to me it can't just be as simple as Kimmy got out of any trouble for stealing money and within less than a year, suddenly put her life together to the point she's having some kind of success. There has to be more here. It would make sense for Josh to be this messed up if Kimmy had to leave along with the baby, for whatever reason. There had to be some consequence for the stealing, and it's likely whatever that consequence was is a big part of why Josh is such a mess right now.
JL23
2024-07-24 16:40:23 +0000 UTCNo one has brought up the line in the past chapter where Kimmy tells Josh she’s not leaving him, just leaving the apartment. “I’m not leaving you, Josh. I’m leaving the apartment. You’ve fled, and you never should have—because I’m the one who’s wrong.” He’s still wearing his ring, too. Maybe it’s not what we think. It’s going to kill me to see Kimmy living her best life while Josh is wallowing in the muck.
Kat
2024-07-24 16:32:00 +0000 UTCSongs, KT... they're enough to make a growed man cry... and most everyone else who isn't dead inside!
Bill F Protagoras
2024-07-24 16:29:28 +0000 UTCYeah, my thought is more along the lines of this could be like a welcome home type thing for Kimmy. That could mean a lot of things, not just she was in jail. If it wasn't jail, maybe she somewhere else with the baby, which may explain why Josh appears to not have been in much contact with Colleen or Kimmy. That's the only thing I can come up with.
JL23
2024-07-24 15:58:23 +0000 UTCI loved Spartacus too, and Empire of the Summer Moon... Native American Indians have long been an interest of mine... I have read fiction but also many 'dictated' books like Black Elk Speaks, Geronimo, big volumes about the many different tribes all over North America like the Nez Perce and Chief Joseph who led his people to 'safety' in Canada. Also I read about AIM and Russell Means before he became a film star, and other less famous rival leaders of the movement and my curiosity hasn't been sated yet... Slavery is far from the only atrocity hidden behind the renown of that bright shiny constitution and the European deeply mistaken sense of superiority they (we) felt... attempted genocide was brushed under the homesteads, and the survivors with governmental amnesia and the calculating ignorance of the complacent majority. History is written by the victors as though Herodotus really was the father of lies... and as though Thucydides and all his successors haven't been telling self-serving porkies. Sorry, Andrew, there I go having fun again... PS I've also read about the aborigines who inhabited the rest of the Americas who by and large didn't fare any better! Have you read Blood Meridian by Cormac McCarthy many me included think its a masterpiece, I warn you though it's not for the faint hearted.
Bill F Protagoras
2024-07-24 15:53:46 +0000 UTCThere is so much context that’s missing. The Josh in the former books never struck me as a guy who would abandon his child. Learning how to be a father may be the thing that snaps him back to life. It’s a cliche, I know, but having a child really changes everything. You can’t just live your life for yourself anymore. Once Josh can figure this part out, he’ll have a reason to wake up every day again. Kimmy must have done something really terrible to keep him from wanting or even just trying to be a dad. He needs to take responsibility for himself, but Kimmy is the one to blame for his mental decline. I would be very disappointed to find out that she gave up on him, and has paid no price for her actions
Kat
2024-07-24 15:24:42 +0000 UTCBill enjoying that show? I am a huge fan of Ancient Rome. I am a personal fan of the show Spartacus. This summer I have been steeped in westerns namely Kevin Costners Horizon and have been reading Empire of the Summer Moon about Quanah Parker and the rise and fall of the Commanche Indian tribe. It’s a masterpiece.
Andrew Mellein
2024-07-24 14:46:19 +0000 UTCI like that route, JL. That probably should be his #1 goal, but mentally he's not in the right place for that. Which is largely Kimmys fault. I think you're right, I could see where she would have to make a tough decision between supporting the baby or supporting Josh, but then what's with the in sickness and health part of their marriage? She grenades everything and when Josh needs her the most, instead it's all Colleen? I get it, the baby needs to come first, but that paints Kimmy in a very bad light, for me, where Colleen is all that matters while Josh's mental health takes a back seat while he visibly implodes. Due to her actions. Kinda why I'm in the Josh needs to figure this out on his own and not ever get back with Kimmy camp. You are right, that's a tough row to hoe, supporting Colleen while having Kimmy rubbed in his nose every time he has to do it. And you're also right, that old Josh would make that sacrifice. So we need the context of why he's so reticent and why he's so low that he's using anxiety meds as a crutch, clearly revolving around Kimmy and something she's done.
L_S87
2024-07-24 14:27:45 +0000 UTCGreat insights, both of you. Disappointment aside, that's why there's hope. I've flip flopped back and forth a number of times on Kimmy and Josh staying together. Mostly ending on them working things out and staying together. I'm just not feeling that right now, mostly because of Josh's state. Whatever Kimmy's grand plan was to burn alone and not involve Josh, she was an abject failure given Josh's current state. Which is why I kinda want him to figure this out on his own, with Meyers support, and perhaps find someone new. Hell, go back to Swanson, take that trip to Rome, spend several months there, find an Italian girlfriend and bring her back to show off to everyone. Bonus points if she's busty and Kimmy gets to see her "assets". Okay, that's me being petty, but it would be fun!
L_S87
2024-07-24 14:11:01 +0000 UTCRight, either extreme would not lead to much of a epilogue. So that's what gives me hope for Josh. Just as there's no story if everything is sunshine and rainbows, there's also no story if Kimmy has moved on and given up on Josh completely, and Josh just remains a mess. This epilogue will have to include opportunities for Josh to turn things around, in whatever ways that comes about. Could be with Kimmy, or without Kimmy. Since the core characters in this opus are Kimmy, Josh and Devlin, they must all still have major, interconnected plots in the ultimate resolution. It may not end up exactly how we want, but I can't see Josh being this defeated at the end.
JL23
2024-07-24 13:56:18 +0000 UTCI agree with you. Josh needs to clean himself up and take care of his daughter. Nothing Kimmy has done should keep him from being a dad.
Kat
2024-07-24 13:42:33 +0000 UTCI thought about this chapter all night, too. It’s left me as sad as Josh, except not addicted to pills. 🙃 Could you imagine Kimmy being even darker? I guess some readers may enjoy that path, but it’s not for me. Throughout the book, Kimmy’s darkness worked for me, because there was a belief that she really loved Josh, and she got caught up doing these terrible things that turned her on. I believed her when she said that Devlin found her in a vulnerable state, needing to feel anything. She was a broken woman. Her goal was never to lose Josh, but to do these things and hope he liked them, too. It brought her back to life. She stole money to get ahead, and to stick it to rich Devlin Stone. I believe that she wanted to buy them a house, and give Josh every dark fantasy she thought he had. Running off with Devlin or Hyun was never part of that for me. I will be especially turned off if Hyun took her in. She was essentially cheating with Kimmy, a family member. You expect that kind of behaviour from your old bully, but not from the mother of your niece. Hyun must know what’s become of Josh, as well. Whether Kimmy is with Hyun, Devlin or some other person, it all makes me sad. What was the point of the Odyssey? I thought it was both of their journey home to one another. Is Kimmy the one with the happy ending? Josh was clearly not the hero in the end. He’s shown no bravery or heroism. Instead, he can’t even get it together and support his child. So much of the story is missing. I hope we get a time jump backwards and find out what happened to Kimmy after she walked out on Josh. Why stay by his side in the hospital after you believe he tried to kill himself because of what you did, only walk out on him the next day, and leave him in ruins? Something is missing here.
Kat
2024-07-24 13:41:27 +0000 UTCThat would be attainable, certainly. I don't want to say easy, because offroading, especially on a bike, can be perilous, depending on terrain. That's why I like the idea of Meyer coming back injured. Not that I like him hurt, only that this is an unfortunately common outcome when running a bike off-road in such an endeavor. I know several guys that did the Continental Divide trail (US version) in a couple of weeks. It's a push, but can be done. Especially if you're on the more casual side of things, like Meyer and Josh would be. IE: not hardcore, must always be off pavement 80-90% of the time, rather than linking off-road sections with pavement. You could link the CA (South and recently finished North) BDR with the Washington and Oregon BDRs for an amazing experience. They don't all start and end back to back, but you could rig something together. Although the suggested timeline for such a route is more in the 3-4 week range. But again, I wouldn't see these two as being hardcore riders. They're more the pic a few green trails along the way on something like onX and stay at a hotel every night sort. A lot of people don't realize just how slow you end up going when you're off road, even on a bike, which is typically somewhat quicker. A hundred miles in a day, full off road, is very common pacing. I did the Alpine Loop in Colorado a couple weeks ago (was why I hadn't been posting, was on vacation) and that's 65 miles. It took us about 7 hours to complete. Anyway, didn't mean this to be a big long lecture. I just know how much you value research and realism, even in your little details, and this happens to be a subject I'm passingly familiar with. A trip on bikes up to Tuktoyaktuk along the Dempster would be amazing too. If more likely to have you carried away by mosquitoes given the time of year.
L_S87
2024-07-24 13:38:55 +0000 UTCGosh darn it, you are right. I know someone who is doing this trip and I thought it was perfect. It would be Josh and Meyer tagging along with an organized trip. I don't think Josh and Meyer would have the chops to handle this on their own. I'm changing the destination to Guadalajara instead, or perhaps Cabo San Lucas, taking them through Baja. What do you think of that?
KT Morrison
2024-07-24 13:15:11 +0000 UTCAs a side note, KT, how far did Meyer and Josh get in their journey? I ask because two weeks is nowhere near enough time to undertake such an adventure. Hell, it takes the better part of 3 weeks, give or take, to do the Trans America trail, and that's without having to deal with something like the Darien Gap. The Long Way up (promotional gimmick for electric motorcycles though it was) took months for a shorter distance. Itchy Boots season 6 is a great watch if you have the inclination on YouTube. She went from Ecuador to Alaska and it took months. Granted, she took a lot of time doing other things to film, just like The Long Way Up, point being, that such a trip isn't some casual endeavor for two guys on dirt bikes. You couldn't do it on a dirt bike anyway, it would have to be some sort of dual sport so it could be plated. Anyway, I digress. You touched on one of my more enjoyable subjects KT, and it's no wonder things ended in disaster for them. That sort of trip is not for the faint of heart. A two week pavement road trip on a cruiser, sure. Mostly off road to Argentina? That's filled with potential life threatening peril, which is why so few do it, and those who do plan plan plan, and are a special sort of different.
L_S87
2024-07-24 11:52:20 +0000 UTCWords like “weak” or “strong” probably aren’t the best descriptors for what I meant about Josh. And no one is solely “strong” or “weak” at all times, we all have our moments of struggle and vulnerability. It’s just been a really long struggle for Josh now, really 15 months and now 15 books, and it doesn’t seem to be letting up. That’s what bums me out. Hope we get the next chapter quickly. Maybe seeing where Kimmy is will help this unease I feel.
JL23
2024-07-24 11:29:43 +0000 UTCAfter a night of recollection, while I still am filled with disappointment to see Josh like this, I think I might see why KT went this route. Not that I would presume to know KTs mind, never could I come up with the amazing masterworks she does, but I see at least one angle that makes sense from a literary standpoint. If everything was great with Josh, moved on or fixed things with Kimmy, this "Epilogue" book wouldn't be a book. There wouldn't be enough content for a book. We'd be taking a few chapters to explain the happy circumstances and then we'd be done. (Similar to most of KTs epilogues) While it grinds me up inside to see Josh even worse off than before, now 15 books of gut wrenching adversity, it does provide a wonderful opportunity to cover his growth out of this emotional hole he's in. We get to see him climb out of the darkness and how that happens. Finally cheer for a bit of happiness he attains. Or so I'm hoping. I don't know if I can live with Kimmy being even darker than she was if that's what's brought Josh so low, and the last book is simply an homage to his eventual emotional demise. Sunshine and lollipops, KT. Please? Pleeeeeease??
L_S87
2024-07-24 11:26:18 +0000 UTCComparing Josh's situation with concentration camps is apples and oranges and more than a bit of a logical leap. I see JL's point, because Josh does come across as weak. So did Pete. They are unable to stand on their own and their partner appears as an emotional crutch that they struggle to survive without. Although in Pete's case, I feel like that's mostly because he saw a side to Tyler that Jess didn't, and felt like it was his job to save her while also saving himself, even if she turned into more than a little bit of a bitch to him near the end. And maybe JL is right, Kimmy needs that kind of saving too, but I feel like Josh isn't in a place to offer it. Which is why I kinda would prefer they not get together. Josh needs to find strength within, not use some miracle with Kimmy to prop him up, otherwise he's an emotional facade, waiting to fall apart at the first sign of trouble. Which is why I think Josh needs to find his way without Kimmy. That doesn't mean we can't have another time jump where they find their way back to each other, I just feel the Josh of now is "weak" and lacks the strength necessary to rebuild a proper, and full relationship with Kimmy. Too much baggage on top of his current issues to overcome. Especially when that baggage is the prime reason for his issues. For me, it would be interesting to see Josh lift himself up in this last book, and see how he achieves that.
L_S87
2024-07-24 11:09:02 +0000 UTCLike those arch pragmatists Jane Austen and Emily Dickinson I'm enough of a Romantic to believe that the mythical heart wants what the mythical heart wants and if Kimmy really no longer yearns for or misses Josh he should cut his losses. Myself, I will feel like one of those people who have lived in an ordinary relationship with a perfectly camouflaged metaphorical serial killer oblivious to her true nature. Betrayed by a long absorbing novel with a short story twist in its tail, or conversely when canny KT's trade craft holds true, whelmed in feeling the cathartic effect of ad hoc realism... "Fair youth, beneath the trees, thou canst not leave Thy song, nor ever can those trees be bare; Bold Lover, never, never canst thou kiss, Though winning near the goal yet, do not grieve; She cannot fade, though thou hast not thy bliss, For ever wilt thou love, and she be fair!" Or like Kimmy on the cover of the three latest books... "Thou, silent form, dost tease us out of thought." Enough maudlin sentiment... when I was young poetry took up space in my memory like a thieving hacker in the night. Obviously the oral trickery of preliteracy was damnably effective. If I'm getting too self indulgent give me the nod.
Bill F Protagoras
2024-07-24 10:39:37 +0000 UTCJosh, Kimmy was very selfish and downright mean while indulging her sexual addiction with an odious bully; but what can possibly be more selfish than diving into an ocean of pity and staying there for a full year. You're not going to fix yourself in a week but you can take some baby steps, maybe stop drinking and start walking. Clean yourself up and look forward to meeting your, no doubt, beautiful daughter, Please!
Steve McCarty
2024-07-24 09:44:01 +0000 UTCKT Morrison writes stories about women who fall in love with sexy men who aren't their husband, and loving relationships that go too far—couples who open a mysterious door, then struggle to get it closed as trouble pushes through the threshold... Instead he turned and laid his back on the door, like bracing it in case she returned, crashing barbarians at the gate, armoured in beauty and wielding the deadliest blades of torment, eager to force their way in and sate their steel with his pain. He slid down to sit on the floor, staring up at the photo Kimmy’s father took when he was a married man with a wife and two daughters, traveling back to his homeland. Happy. Together. But all good things come to an end. That really is some new revised mission statement for after the iconoclastic... "Devil In The Waters." I love it when KT waxes lyrical... you know it's time to put the crayons away .
Bill F Protagoras
2024-07-24 05:14:27 +0000 UTCI too had that probably wrong thought, Kat... KT left the jar wide open and I saw everything but hope come swarming out. But I do remember everything that was said and done at the end of Pandemonium... Then we caught a glimpse of a happy Josh... Need I say more?
Bill F Protagoras
2024-07-24 04:57:24 +0000 UTCI think it's a mistake to label people as weak as if all those people who have died in labour and concentration camps were weak and by extension that all those banal monsters who oppressed them were strong. Pete never seemed weak to me, just too kind and considerate. It didn't come as a surprise that one day his patience reached its limit! He didn't break, THEY did! The only type of weakness Josh showed was drowning his shame in so much alcohol he almost died by drowning in a freezing lake. Kimmy might suspect he tried to kill himself, but I see no compelling evidence that it is so, and we have more information than her. I knew three people well who took their own lives over the past decade all of whom were depressed for a long time, and none of them a weakling or a coward. Josh wasn't violent, but that doesn't make him weak it makes his behaviour prudent. One of the worst things Kimmy did was in the privacy of her own mind to impugn him as not behaving like enough of a man, and later actually voicing her rather vague accusation, as if his lack of effort for his own improvement was a continuing disappointment to her personally. But she was fucked up so she sowed the seeds she had to hand. How shall she now reap?
Bill F Protagoras
2024-07-24 04:37:57 +0000 UTCMaybe even some threat directed at Josh, Andrew .
Bill F Protagoras
2024-07-24 03:24:17 +0000 UTCI had a thought that’s probably wrong, but what if “next weekend” isn’t a party or something for the baby, what if it’s for Kimmy? What if she’s coming home from jail?
Kat
2024-07-24 03:05:57 +0000 UTCYeah, we can only fix ourselves, others can’t do it for us. And you may be right, it might be better for Josh to move on. But if that baby is his, then I’d be disappointed in him if he didn’t figure out a way to get his shit together and be a father. And if that’s a big reason why Kimmy has moved on, assuming she has, I couldn’t fault her for that. It would just be a really sad read the rest of the way if there’s truly no hope for Kimmy and Josh. The narrative of this story would indicate there is some type of final confrontation between Josh, Kimmy and Devlin coming, and not sure how we’d get that if Kimmy doesn’t really want or need Josh to help save her from…something. Even Pete took a stand finally, and he was probably the weakest “hero” in any of these longer books. There has to be a point coming up where Josh has his moment.
JL23
2024-07-24 02:46:39 +0000 UTCMe too, JL, I’ve been down all day after reading this chapter. Meyer seems so loyal to Josh. He seems like the only person in this story that truly loves and cares for him. Wouldn’t he be more upset if Hyun was in a relationship with Aunt Kimmy, the person that broke his cousin’s heart?
Kat
2024-07-24 02:43:24 +0000 UTCFor me, the #1 goal is to learn how to be a father. Assuming the baby is his, which it seems to be. It’s not easy with Kimmy being the mother, it would be infinitely easier for him if he could truly get distance from her, but with the baby that isn’t an option. The Josh we know, and the Josh that Kimmy loved, would figure out a way to do it for his daughter. But that could be why Kimmy has written him off for now and moved on, if that’s indeed the reality. Her Josh would never not be there for his kid, no matter how he felt about what she did.
JL23
2024-07-24 02:22:02 +0000 UTCI like your idea of a devils bargain, JL. It may not be true, but it would go a long way to explaining why Josh is so messed up, yet still wearing his ring, because he's on the outside looking in, only seeing glimpses of what Kimmy shows the world, only his own addled conjecture as to what is actually going on. He inserts his own version of what's actually happening, thinking the worst, in typical Josh fashion. Given his history with Kimmy, it would be easy to understand why. It must be something that allows him just enough leeway to imagine getting her back, thus the ring, but just awful enough that he feels decimated and near hopeless. Thus quiting his job and the anxiety issues. At the end of the day, I feel his best course is to let go. Whether that happens or not, we'll see. Usually they find a way back together in KT books. I don't think that's fitting here, imo. What's wrong with Josh can't be fixed by Kimmy. It was started by Kimmy, but has metastasized into its own evil thing. Given life by Josh's inner demons, fed by Kimmy's misdeeds and mistreatment, where even her last act is torture rather then blessing. Just my opinion, but only Josh can fix Josh at this point. He's too far gone for Kimmy to help. He needs a new life and a new self. Then he can find someone who isn't Kimmy and all of the anxiety inducing baggage she would bring.
L_S87
2024-07-24 02:13:35 +0000 UTCI agree, JL. That fits in with Josh's bouts of shame.
Bill F Protagoras
2024-07-24 02:05:11 +0000 UTCLove your Shawshank reference JL. And it proves a good point. Josh needs to escape, and it needs to be on his own. Not reliant on others or falling back into old ways and bad habits. He's nowhere near that right now, but Kimmy is emotional prison. He needs an escape.
L_S87
2024-07-24 02:03:34 +0000 UTCYou two are both right. Clearly something more is going on here. And it feels like Josh may be an outsider to it as well. Kimmy said that's what she wanted. So all Josh sees is whatever facade has been created and is reacting poorly to it. Its part of why I want Kimmy's POV. She may be just as dead inside, she simply does a better job of hiding it because she's always been stronger in that then Josh. He wears his heart on his sleeve, she doesn't. Ultimately I hope Josh is given some sort of consideration for time served. He basically had an 18 month emotional jail sentence where the inmates have all but destroyed him. He needs a reprieve so he can find his own life and meaning in it. Based on this chapter, Kimmy can't, and shouldn't, provide that. That's probably what the while trip was supposed to be for. Josh needs to center himself, then start over.
L_S87
2024-07-24 02:00:38 +0000 UTCYeah, Meyer is another thing. I guess you can say there are hints he may not be happy with things. He says he’s going for Sophie, and Josh said the trip was good “for both of them.” But feels like both their ex-wives getting together would cause more angst that it seems like it is for Meyer. Though he may just be better at hiding it. We didn’t see any mention of Quinn, which makes me wonder if they’re still together. Plus he’s now living with Josh, though Quinn might be OK considering it doesn’t seem like Josh should be living alone. Man this chapter has really stuck with me some kind of way. And unfortunately not in a good way. But hopefully it’s darkest before dawn. I don’t need Josh to be with Kimmy at the end of this. But I do want him to be in a better place than this, clean, sober and hopefully being a Dad.
JL23
2024-07-24 01:51:03 +0000 UTCExperience is what you get, whether you want it or not. Words are tricky things, though differing in opinion, Kerouac and Caesar both thought of it as a means to their own ends. Forming their ambitions or their lack thereof. Sometimes experience is what happens to you, what informs you, independent of your will or necessities as Heraclitus might have believed... Life is only an education insofar as we are eventually led out of it... Hedonism accepts that experience has value in and of itself. Which is what Josh and Kimmy struggled modestly to maintain as the Waters, until the arbitrary nature of experience (including Devlin's malice afore thought) knocked them off kilter and into opposition. Josh is no more intrinsically weak and innocent, than Kimmy is intrinsically strong and confident. As Elias testily replied, when asked by a stranger if he was Elias the Sheepshagger... "You shag ONE sheep..."
Bill F Protagoras
2024-07-24 01:22:06 +0000 UTCI agree with both of you. I’m not going to enjoy reading Kimmy moving on like it’s nothing, and Josh seemingly destroyed. I said in another post (I’m probably wrong) that maybe Kimmy was away, and couldn’t care for the baby, so Hyun took over. Josh doesn’t appear to be able to be a part of Colleen’s life in a meaningful way. I am surprised that if Kimmy and Hyun are a couple that Meyer wouldn’t be more pissed off, especially because Hyun was angling for Kimmy behind Josh’s back.
Kat
2024-07-24 01:15:42 +0000 UTCOk. Thanks. Josh and Kimmy’s place was a rental if I recall.
Tracey52
2024-07-24 01:09:44 +0000 UTCRight, that’s where I’m at. I can’t fathom that in basically a year Kimmy went from being distraught she’d ruined Josh to moving on without him knowing his life is actually worse now. Which is why I think there must be more of a reason behind it. Either she had to make some kind of “Devils” bargain with one or both of the Stones, and she wants to hide that to protect him, or she’s not physically present at the moment to see how deeply he’s fallen. But maybe that’s just my hopes talking. At L_S87 has said in other posts, if the story is simply Kimmy has moved on and finding success while Josh continues to crater, I’m not sure that is something I’m excited to read. Even if Josh comes out some version of OK at the end.
JL23
2024-07-24 00:57:14 +0000 UTCYeah, that’s what I’m having trouble with, that Kimmy has completely written Josh off in only a year. If he’s the father of the baby, and the love of her life, how can she just turn away like this? She must know of his condition, and she should feel horrible because she ruined their relationship. The Kimmy of the last few chapters seemed changed somewhat, acknowledging what she’d done, and how she’d destroyed her husband.
Kat
2024-07-24 00:46:48 +0000 UTCI think he meant Josh and Meyer, and then Josh noticed she saw his wedding ring, which would bring up questions in her mind as to why he’s living with his cousin and not his wife.
JL23
2024-07-24 00:46:42 +0000 UTCI agree, Josh seemed stronger in the previous chapter then he does now. What happened to make him disheveled, gaunt and addicted to pills? Sure a breakup with Kimmy would do that, but he’s still wearing his wedding ring. We’re missing a lot of details. It bothers me to see Josh like this, while we assume that Kimmy’s living her best life.
Kat
2024-07-24 00:42:16 +0000 UTCGreat example!
Kat
2024-07-24 00:37:01 +0000 UTCSteve said to Mariam, “They have an apartment together.” Her eyes flicked to Josh’s wedding ring, and he instinctively put his hand over it. Does this mean Kimmy and Hyun have an apartment together? I think it does.
Tracey52
2024-07-24 00:35:25 +0000 UTCLove that Pausch quote! And I think it also applies.
KT Morrison
2024-07-24 00:32:24 +0000 UTCHe’d have the easy out then, if it actually was Devlin’s and he knew it. He wouldn’t have to reveal all the sordid details to tell people like Meyer that the baby wasn’t his, and I don’t think Meyer would be on him to see her. It would be truly dark if he was forced to act like the baby was his cause of his embarrassment, and Kimmy was OK with letting him do that and watch as it destroys him. That basically enacting Devlin’s plan for Josh.
JL23
2024-07-24 00:15:21 +0000 UTCWith all due respect to Kerouac and Caesar, others look at the matter in a different light, one that is perhaps more immediate for Josh: "Experience is what you get when you don't get what you want." {from Randy Pausch's "The Last Lecture" - early AI guru and scientist and professor at Carnegie Mellon who died in his 40s}. Josh is a mess, and even KT does not have time in one book to bring him back, not even great sex can do that as far gone as he is. JL, I lean toward the end of your second conjecture about Kimmy just above. Either that, or she and Devlin Sr. just came back from their Cayman wedding to great fanfare in Toronto society. How expensive was the suit? Could Josh have been forced to pay that back to Stone, plus damages, court costs, interest, and fines? Couldn't that total C$14k? Well, not intended as a connected set of thoughts, at least I succeeded at that effort.
Donkatsu
2024-07-24 00:05:25 +0000 UTCColleen could be Devlin’s. Would explain the disinterest.
Tracey52
2024-07-24 00:00:48 +0000 UTCExperience is the way. Just feels like poor Josh is Andy Dufrense in Shawshank, crawling through a mile of…."experience” to taste fresh air on the other side. And he may only be a half mile through, if that.
JL23
2024-07-23 23:51:21 +0000 UTCA great catch, KT. QED A great title... the full relevance of which will surely extend beyond the On the Road, Dharma Bums experience. They certainly both learned on the march...
Bill F Protagoras
2024-07-23 23:38:13 +0000 UTCThere’s just so many cryptic lines, I keep finding more. For instance, he tells Meyer he’s going later, when no one else is there. But, if Kimmy is with Hyun why would being alone with them make it easier? I guess that’s kind of what Meyer says, it’ll be easier with others there. Maybe he can’t handle the embarrassment of other’s judgement, and maybe he’s saying that as a way to stop Meyer from talking about (and he has no intention to actually go later.) But him leaving his job, being this messed up and this disengaged in being a father to Colleen, tracks to something more going on than Kimmy is just moving on without him. Whatever I think of Kimmy, I can’t see how she’d write him off to the point that within a year she’d have little to no contact with him, while knowing he’s a mess. Unless she had no choice in the matter.
JL23
2024-07-23 23:32:03 +0000 UTCMy speculation is Berg gave Kimmy an offer she couldn't refuse... which would mean unwillingness on her part, and coercion on someone else's. To put it vulgarly perhaps she is being made to kiss the ring, something even worse than prison.
Bill F Protagoras
2024-07-23 23:24:29 +0000 UTCWhy he quit his job is a big puzzle piece as well. Steve makes a comment that when you figure out “what’s what” everyone there would like to have him back, including the boss. So, it was clearly his idea to leave and not a performance thing where he got fired. But why? Would you just leave a job cause your wife (or ex-wife) was moving on and you couldn’t handle that? I could see him getting fired because he fell apart emotionally and couldn’t function due to that, but that isn’t the case here. Just feels like there is more to this than Kimmy moved on with her life in 12 months while Josh remains a wreck. Whether that picture that caused Josh so much angst depicted Kimmy in a happy moment, I find it hard to believe she truly is happy when we dig below the surface.
JL23
2024-07-23 23:19:30 +0000 UTCI hope some actual evidence of the baby being his was presented at some point. I wouldn't trust Kimmys word on that.
Chris K
2024-07-23 23:18:08 +0000 UTCGreat insight, JL. I wondered if Kimmy was maybe in jail or away and the baby was with Hyun, but that doesn't really explain Josh's anxiety, quitting his job or not wanting to see Colleen, so I feel like something else is going on. Could be wrong, of course. I'm hoping we get Kimmy's pov next so we get an idea of where she's at and whats going on with her and Hyun. That might give us an idea of why things are the way they are with Josh.
L_S87
2024-07-23 23:15:47 +0000 UTCAndrew the only one of his that I liked, was A Love Too Hard. It's the only one with a happy ending, but a lot of weird shit happens in his books! Lol
Chris K
2024-07-23 23:15:46 +0000 UTCMaybe her deal with Stone Sr. Is to be his whore in exchange for freedom. Maybe she's pregnant in that photo? Who knows. So much fun coming!!
Chris K
2024-07-23 23:13:52 +0000 UTCJack Kerouac: "The best teacher is experience and not through someone’s distorted point of view." vs Julius Caesar: "Ut est rerum omnium magister usus" (Experience is the teacher of all things). —I didn't think anyone would get it, it's far too esoteric and the options a multitude no once would line those two things up! I asked so I could reveal.
KT Morrison
2024-07-23 23:11:02 +0000 UTCInteresting, JL.
Bill F Protagoras
2024-07-23 22:56:12 +0000 UTCYeah, Maggie impacted me for a while, mostly cause I read that epilogue as Max was still pining for Maggie, and that Keely was just a consolation prize. Which would be sad for him and sad for Keely. That’s a big part of the reason I’m glad you’ve written some Keely chapters, so we can see how her relationship developed with Max and how they have their own connection and love independent from everything with Maggie.
JL23
2024-07-23 22:49:16 +0000 UTCTriumph? They both bled to death... They were both cut untimely from their mother's womb? Why lesson?
Bill F Protagoras
2024-07-23 22:44:15 +0000 UTCSome other spit ball thoughts (that will be proven totally wrong by next chapter): 1) The fact that just a photo of Kimmy impacted Josh, so much he may have caused an accident, would indicate that he has not had much, if any, contact with Kimmy in these 12 months. If he did, he’d know at least how she was doing and how she looked to the point it wouldn’t haunt him like that. Since it seems Meyer has been on him for his lack of involvement with Colleen, it might track that he just can’t bear to be around and watch her move on. But maybe it’s that no one has seen Kimmy for a long time. Which brings me to…. 2) Trying to determine Steve’s rationale in sharing a photo of Kimmy. Even if no one knows the total truth, if the general known story is that Kimmy and Josh are separated because of something she did to him, I don’t feel like Steve’s instinct would be to immediately share a photo of her in a happy moment of her life with Josh. For Steve to think Josh might be interested only to then realize that might not have been a good idea, would lead me to think perhaps the general story is they’re still together, but something else is happening. Like Kimmy is away for reasons other than a marital separation…they do pieces in the Lifestyle section of people trying to reform their lives after being caught right?
JL23
2024-07-23 22:42:46 +0000 UTCYou're right JL in defense of Kimmy and her potentially moving on to take care of the baby, but when we last left Josh, he wasn't this emotionally messed up, and he was quite angry with Kimmy. So some things have clearly occurred to make the mess we now see. Again the lack of context leaves a lot more questions then answers. Context I'm sure KT will provide. My issue with Kimmy stems less from her focusing on a new life and more with any potential relationship rekindling. If Kimmy truly has moved on to support her baby and a new life, I don't want a story where Josh falls apart pining for what could have been. We already had that with Maggie. Many of Kimmy's male protagonists act this way, so I'm hoping for something different. Which is probably what led to some of my disappointment. Josh has been pummeled to within an inch of his emotional life. I think he deserves his own HEA that doesn't rely on the benevolence of others but is his own, anxiety free ending where he finds his own inner strength to stand up. I was hoping he could do that with Kimmy until this chapter. But it sets such a grim picture that I don't see any way he could get back together with Kimmy and not come off as a wimp. It was my one major gripe with the Maggie ending. Max comes across as very weak. I'd like Josh to find his own strength, without leaning on Kimmy for it, or having to leech off of someone else for support. Given his trials and tribulations, I feel he's earned it.
L_S87
2024-07-23 22:34:16 +0000 UTCKerouac basically drank himself to death in his late 40’s. A lesson for where Josh could be headed if he doesn’t turn it around? Not sure on Caesar, the Emperor who lived decadently and was ultimately betrayed by his friend. Feels like a parallel for Devlin, maybe the revenge plan of Kimmy? But doesn’t really apply to this specific chapter.
JL23
2024-07-23 22:28:44 +0000 UTCChris have you read Peter G Johnson's latest? Greener Grass. (LOL!) It reminded me of KT's masterpiece "Learning Lessons". Basically a suburban couple with two young twin daughters invite gangster college student to live with them. Being Peter G you know what's going to happen. Weak cuckold husbands, slutty wives, and dominant young bulls are his usual tropes. There's even a scene where the husband is dismissed in his own home! I probably pick up the next two books but from already reading his stuff I know where it's going to go (LOL!)
Andrew Mellein
2024-07-23 22:24:57 +0000 UTCYes JL23. I think if she is with Devlin it's through some form of blackmail to make her crimes go away. We will see.
Andrew Mellein
2024-07-23 22:16:11 +0000 UTCThey fought in the Gallic Wars together, they attended the same Lycée... I'm stumped!
Bill F Protagoras
2024-07-23 22:14:57 +0000 UTCYeah, we cannot forget the first half of the title. The “Devil” is still going to play a part in this. One characteristic of KT bulls is they are generally not one dimensional villains. So perhaps Devlin stepped up and got Kimmy out of the jam with his father, maybe he paid back the money and got his father to back off, and still hired her. That would be hard for Kimmy to say no to, even if she promised she was done with him. And could explain why Josh fell off the deep end: not only did his wife not trust him to help, she went to his bully and tormenter instead. Perhaps she also never told Josh exactly what she did, so he just sees that last conversation as more BS and manipulation from her. I don’t know, I’m just spit balling now…got a couple more spit balls to share in a bit.
JL23
2024-07-23 22:04:57 +0000 UTCThe only way I could see her with Devlin at this point is through blackmail. Maybe it was the price to pay for keeping her out of jail?
Andrew Mellein
2024-07-23 22:02:12 +0000 UTCI was hoping he at least went on his Rome trip for his job and hooked up with someone else.
Andrew Mellein
2024-07-23 22:00:39 +0000 UTCYou would think Kimmy would try getting back with Josh after not going to jail and being a successes. Also having his baby! I smell some Stone blackmail going on here.
Andrew Mellein
2024-07-23 21:57:46 +0000 UTCTa! I second your portentous sound track!
Bill F Protagoras
2024-07-23 21:57:38 +0000 UTCAt least we know the baby's Josh's. Why else would he be forced to visit if it wasn't his. Remember he said if it was Devlin's he would tell Kimmy to essentially "fuck off to the hills". Also so much for Josh's big Rome trip (LOL!).
Andrew Mellein
2024-07-23 21:52:51 +0000 UTCThank you once again... your writing is no frivolous wish fulfilment... what I've read of yours tells me enough to respect your credentials or creds, if we were being reductive and limiting ourselves to streets... now I'm going to make some butties and watch Those About to Die and see whether that cheers me up!
Bill F Protagoras
2024-07-23 21:35:03 +0000 UTC1 year. dun dun DUUUN
Glaucon
2024-07-23 21:16:51 +0000 UTCI'm a simple blue collar guy who likes erotic dramas. You lost me already 😒
Chris K
2024-07-23 21:10:33 +0000 UTCWell said, JL! Also not to state the bleeding obvious the title of the work remains the same... at least lets give them a chance to discuss divorce. How long does it take to get a divorce in the more civilized north of North America? Is there a Canadian equivalent of Las Vegas?
Bill F Protagoras
2024-07-23 21:07:29 +0000 UTCAlso I suppose those very words kinda gave a permission slip for the drawing of alarmingly hasty conclusions... still as long as it keeps people happy... and off the streets.
Bill F Protagoras
2024-07-23 21:05:27 +0000 UTCTo defend Kimmy, if we ultimately find out she has moved on and is happy; at a certain point, her focus had to become taking care of the baby, and not trying to make sure Josh was OK. And if the baby is really his (and this chapter seems pretty clear that Colleen is his daughter...seems being the operative word), then at a certain point he's gotta suck it up and be there for her as well. Hyun may have been the one who ended up being there for Kimmy while she was pregnant and dealing with whatever trouble she got in for the money. While Josh appears to have quit his job and currently seems to have no prospects to resolve that and provide support. At that face value, I can't exactly criticize Kimmy for his predicament and for moving on. If that's actually what happened. But I just feel like that would be too easy. And the idea there were no consequences to Kimmy personally and professionally for stealing $75k doesn't feel plausible to me. There must be more to it than she got away with it, and moved on with Hyun (or even Devlin) without Josh.
JL23
2024-07-23 21:02:30 +0000 UTCAnyone want to speculate on the Kerouac/Caesar connection or is it too cryptic?
KT Morrison
2024-07-23 20:56:45 +0000 UTCYou're right JL, not the least of which is because Kimmy was adamant she wasn't going to Hyun's the last chapter of book 14. So either she's a bald faced liar, which we know she is but didn't feel like it in that moment, or a lot of things have changed. Which to be fair, one year has passed. A lot of time for change. Perhaps the point here is that Josh hasn't moved on and he needs closure with Kimmy to do so. As it stands now, getting back together with Kimmy would be an awful ending, for me at least. We do get a full book level epilogue, though. So maybe after this "event", Josh will find the strength to search out someone who will mean something to him. Karina or whomever, but someone who will treat him like the catch the office girls insisted he was. NOT someone who would watch him slide into a heaping, anxiety med popping wreck and do nothing about it when it was her fault.
L_S87
2024-07-23 20:54:37 +0000 UTCCome on Kat... surely we need better evIdence than Lifestyle whatever the fuck that is! So Kimmy shucked off her grief and woes like a snake shedding its skin...
Bill F Protagoras
2024-07-23 20:52:52 +0000 UTCYep, Kat. Which is why I'm hoping all the context we're missing will point in a different direction once it's provided. That doesn't seem in Hyun's character at all, though it certainly is in Kimmys. Mostly it just bothers me that Josh is like this because it sets up a scenario, unless we get another time jump, where Josh miserablely crawls back to Kimmy because he's an addict that can't function without her (bleh storyline there) or, Kimmy moved on, is happy without him, if regretful for how things went down, and Josh is left scrounging for scraps rather than truly moving on. Neither scenario is that enjoyable. So, context. Hopefully next chapter provides some and we get an understanding of why Josh quit his job, seems to have ruined himself, and Kimmy is the exact opposite. What I truly hope we don't get is some fluttery ending where Josh is suddenly sorta okay in the last couple of chapters and perhaps making another go at life (with or without Kimmy). If he's going to be drug into the mud even further, then I want to see him find a way out on his own strength, and find his own happiness, not have it given to him on a platter like a fortuitous gift from a benevolent god because Josh is unable to function on his own. Which is sorta how it would feel if Josh and Kimmy got back together at this point.
L_S87
2024-07-23 20:46:46 +0000 UTCI'm kind of bummed sitting here now too, but we don't know a lot yet. I really don't think there's a story if Kimmy has moved on with her life and is happy and Josh is miserable. At least not one that we'd be spending a whole chapter on. It sure seems to read to me like Kimmy and Hyun are together in some way, but we don't know anything of how that came to be or how Kimmy feels about it. Again, I've never been known as a Kimmy defender, but there is a big part of the last 12 months we are missing right now. How this particular scene, and the Josh we are seeing, came to be can probably be answered in 100 different ways, and we are focusing on the one that seems most obvious. This story doesn't typically go the most obvious way, and it's probably not here either.
JL23
2024-07-23 20:45:13 +0000 UTCA beautiful and touching sentiment, Bill. I can get emotional and feel the stories too much, tapping into scenarios of my own—real or imagined. I remember when I wrote the end of Maggie I was hit pretty hard by the writing. Six months at least were kind of dreadful. Prone to depression and ennui and sometimes just hearing a snippet of a relatable song would send me inside to sit behind a closed door for a while. But it's the bad times that give the good ones meaning.
KT Morrison
2024-07-23 20:40:51 +0000 UTCThe deceptive simple words of this instalment are a delicious torment...
Bill F Protagoras
2024-07-23 20:39:28 +0000 UTCYou are a great writer, KT, and you've learned and earned it the hard way as far as I can see. Thank you!
Bill F Protagoras
2024-07-23 20:35:02 +0000 UTCI am depressed, as well. I wanted to see Josh happy. I’m hoping we’re wrong. If not, it’s clear that Kimmy never really loved Josh, and Hyun is a snake.
Kat
2024-07-23 20:30:45 +0000 UTCLol, Josh, please pass the lorazepam!
Kat
2024-07-23 20:28:27 +0000 UTCGotta say, at first glance, this chapter rather disappoints me. After 14 books of Josh being beaten down, I was kinda hoping 18 (now 12) months would be an allowable time to let him actually enjoy his life that Kimmy wrecked. Instead it seems Kimmy is living the high life (high enough to be pictured in the lifestyle section of a publication) while Josh is still wearing their ring and taking anxiety meds. I spent most of this series hoping they could work it out. After this chapter, I don't want them to. Kimmy doesn't deserve it, and Josh deserves a medication free life with someone who won't fuck it over and then go on living like it was nothing. Hopefully this "event" that is planned means something different and our lack of context with Kimmys picture means something other than what it currently appears to mean. Right now I'm as depressed as Josh. We waited days for *this*? I want the next chapter already so I can get out of this funk Josh and I are in.
L_S87
2024-07-23 20:27:03 +0000 UTCFucking brilliant, KT. I won't go into details just yet, I'm unexpectedly emotional and moved by Kimmy and Josh's predicament... My daughter was here with her new boyfriend for ten days... even a hermit feels lonely sometimes despite all the electronic conveniences and virtual realities nowadays! Being both a mother and a father has its advantages and disadvantages. Losses fade, but they never go away... being a skeptic, and cynic is a pain in the arse and though losses increase in number some have their own bitter flavour... and today is the 23rd. It's good to have a child and art like yours to compensate for our names, and THEIR names, being writ in water.
Bill F Protagoras
2024-07-23 20:26:47 +0000 UTCLol, now I see that date change. Makes sense. Now if all of my other questions were answered. If our current state is Kimmy in a relationship with Devlin and Josh is a drug addicted mess over that, I'm gonna want to find an icy lake 2 hours north of Peterborough myself. We could also be misreading where Kimmy is. Maybe it's not all sunshine and rainbows for her either, and the reason Josh is so messed up is because she got into real trouble. Maybe Hyun is raising Colleen because Kimmy is in jail and Josh can't deal with it, and the picture in the Lifestyle section doesn't mean what we all assume. If she's just 6 months, then I'm not sure what is happening the following weekend in regards to Colleen, where Josh would be expected to attend. A first birthday party made sense, he'd be expected to be there as the Dad even if he didn't want to, and that'd be something others would attend as well. And why does Meyer need the broken arm now? So many questions...
JL23
2024-07-23 20:25:33 +0000 UTCThanks for the clarification, KT. So thoughtful of you to make sure the boys had nice weather for their trip!
Glaucon
2024-07-23 20:21:30 +0000 UTCOmg, so I’m not losing brain cells? That’s debatable, lol, but the time jump still leaves me with questions. Please, please KT I need another chapter.
Kat
2024-07-23 20:18:01 +0000 UTCI did just change it to October!
KT Morrison
2024-07-23 20:16:45 +0000 UTCSorry everyone: I just changed the date to a year later rather than 18 months. I don't want it as long as 18, but Josh and Meyer wouldn't enjoy a trip from Canada to SA in the winter. So they did the trip in September (a fine time!) and Colleen is only six months. I'd prefer her to be 9 months but I'm having trouble making the timelines work. (I want Meyer to have the broken arm now).
KT Morrison
2024-07-23 20:15:05 +0000 UTCTo be fair, I think unsettling is a lot of what this story's been going for!
Glaucon
2024-07-23 20:14:45 +0000 UTCOh…….I’m losing brain cells at a rapid rate. I thought I read October. May, of course it’s Colleen’s 1st birthday.
Kat
2024-07-23 20:13:51 +0000 UTCI hope you’re right. Kimmy living well with their baby is unsettling.
Kat
2024-07-23 20:12:19 +0000 UTCI’m sad, too. I wanted to see Josh with his life together, and Kimmy to be the one putting the pieces back together. As you said, the evidence suggests that Kimmy is happy and thriving.
Kat
2024-07-23 20:10:47 +0000 UTCThe date at the top of the chapter said "Friday, May 7," so we are in May. I find it hard to believe there were no consequences for Kimmy stealing the money. I'm thinking she had to have gotten disbarred at least, and maybe pay back the money. In that instance, living with Hyun would make sense. At a certain point, if Josh was not mentally able to support, she'd have to turn to someone. Hyun was always the likely choice. Whatever we think of her actions to put both of them on this course, Kimmy had to figure out a way to support the baby. I would also think if Kimmy is involved with Hyun romantically, there isn't much story here, assuming part of the plot is the potential prospect of reconciliation.
JL23
2024-07-23 20:06:54 +0000 UTCI don’t get the 18 month time jump. Book 14 ended in October. This new book starts in October and says 18 months later. That’s not possible. If Kimmy was 3 months pregnant in October, her due date would have been in April or May. That would make Colleen a year and a half. Another thought, which I know is probably wrong, but whatever, maybe Colleen is living with Hyun and Sophie because Kimmy has been unable to care for her, whether it be jail or something else. Josh, also, does not seem able to care for a baby, so Hyun took over? Most likely Kimmy is living her best life with Hyun, Sophie and her and Josh’s daughter. Seems really unfair, but such is life.
Kat
2024-07-23 20:04:16 +0000 UTCThe trip may have cost 14K, and it was wasted because after Josh got the picture from Steve the trip was ruined.
Kat
2024-07-23 19:51:57 +0000 UTCKimmy was between 3 and 4 months pregnant when we left them last, so 18 months would make sense that the baby is around 1. And as I read the chapter again, I think the implication is more that it's about Kimmy and Hyun. Both Josh and Meyer seem to indicate they needed to get away, and it seems clear to me that Kimmy is likely living with Hyun. So I think the photo is something related to them. Would Steve have been dense enough to think a photo of Kimmy and Hyun announcing something like an engagement was something Josh wanted to see? I don't think so, but don't really know him. Maybe it's just something else, but I think the evidence points to Kimmy being involved with Hyun, either just living together or being in a relationship.
JL23
2024-07-23 19:51:35 +0000 UTCfor the baby timeline, if Kimmy was only newly pregnant pre-timeskip, the baby could be roughly a year old now.
Glaucon
2024-07-23 19:50:14 +0000 UTCI think the reader is only meant to dread the possibility is all.
Glaucon
2024-07-23 19:46:21 +0000 UTCI agree, I’m pretty unhappy right now, especially if Kimmy moved on with Hyun and suffered no consequences.
Kat
2024-07-23 19:45:41 +0000 UTCFirst things first, Steve sent Josh a picture from the lifestyle section of the newspaper? Has Kimmy moved on? Is she with Devlin? Engagement and wedding announcements are usually in the lifestyle section. I feel sick to my stomach, too. Josh pass me a lorazepam! Lol Who is Colleen? I’m assuming Colleen is Kimmy’s baby, but 18 months later, wouldn’t the baby be well over a year old now? Meyer mentions that she’s almost a year old now. Why would Josh be going over “there” unless he’s the father of the baby? Is Kimmy living with Hyun? Meyer mentioned going over for Sophie’s sake. Are Hyun and Kimmy now a couple? I hope she’s not with Devlin or another guy. I’m not assuming anything, but it sounds like Kimmy hasn’t had too tough of a time after destroying her marriage and stealing 75K. Poor Josh, it sounds like he’s had a breakdown. It reminds me of Geoff a year after he and Nia split.
Kat
2024-07-23 19:44:05 +0000 UTCI am so disappointed with Josh. I imagined him working hard and taking martial arts classes so that he could pop Devlin in the nose, instead he is morose, pitiful and unemployed. Pick yourself up and win her back!
Steve McCarty
2024-07-23 19:43:42 +0000 UTCMeyer says he's going "for Sophie" so that does indicate that whatever is happening over the weekend is happening at Hyun's. Maybe the Lifestyle section is a picture of Hyun and Kimmy's engagement announcement? It would seem to me that would upset Meyer more than it seems to be, but he's moved on from Hyun and isn't in love with her anymore. That scenario seems more likely to me than Kimmy is now with Devlin. But who knows? This really was an "evil" chapter for those of hoping Josh would be in a good place. I wasn't necessarily hoping Kimmy would be in a bad place, but it would stink if she's moved on but Josh is a mess. But I guess the point of this 15th book could be for Josh to get his life back together, whatever that ultimately entails. He can't end in this place right?
JL23
2024-07-23 19:42:04 +0000 UTC"There was an long, awkward silence on one side of the table." 'a' long, awkward silence... those last minute adjectives always cause slip ups.
Bill F Protagoras
2024-07-23 19:41:07 +0000 UTCYeah, the $14,000 photograph reference could mean Myers' medical bill, or it could mean something else. I just find it hard to believe if Kimmy was with Devlin, Josh would go anywhere near them. But...maybe that's why he's hooked on anxiety meds and from Meyer's tone seems to be avoiding any interaction with the baby where he can. The fact that Meyer is cajoling him about visiting would indicate to me the baby is his, but something about Kimmy's current life status is keeping him from being engaged in the baby's life in a way you'd expect him to be. Maybe she's still working with Devlin, with his new company, and they're having success. She would need money to support the baby, and it doesn't seem like Josh is able to contribute right now. Or she's simply moved on and having success with something completely unrelated to Devlin. The fact he says he'll visit "later" when others aren't around still indicates to me that Kimmy is not living with Devlin. But I can't say for sure if she isn't now in a relationship with him.
JL23
2024-07-23 19:37:03 +0000 UTCSo Kimmy left to keep from hurting Josh. But this seems more like she just cut the dead weight. Maybe those tears Josh thought were fake in the last chapter actually were fake?
Chris K
2024-07-23 19:35:03 +0000 UTCOk, so Josh is not ok! I’m guessing Kimmy is with Hyun. Plan B it was. I guess the picture is of Kimmy and Hyun. Not In jail either. I don’t get the timeline other than the two weeks became many months and cost 14 grand, so that’s why Josh left work. Does that seem correct? Poor Josh, the suffering continues. You’re evil KT.
Tracey52
2024-07-23 19:31:42 +0000 UTCNot only that, but lifestyle would also suggest some high status/moneyed connection beyond what Kimmy herself could generate (unless she just became famous or something). I think the reader is supposed to be making a connection to the Stone family here, but whether that's a bait and switch we'll just have to wait and see!
Glaucon
2024-07-23 19:28:15 +0000 UTCYeah that would be a real kick in the you know what's. But I can't believe Kimmy would willingly do that. There must be something else going on. But I am sad that we are starting in a place where Josh's life is a mess, and the evidence suggests that Kimmy may have put her life back together and moved on.
JL23
2024-07-23 19:22:53 +0000 UTCSo scratch that thought of Josh being in a good place. A lot to unpack and try to guess at. The only thing I'm 100% sure of is that the baby is named Colleen, and she appears to be living with Hyun and Sophie. And that Josh is unemployed and seems in really bad mental shape still. And I'm guessing Kimmy is living with Hyun? Or at least she's going to be at Hyun's with the baby for whatever this weekend event is, assuming her first birthday? If Kimmy had a picture in the Lifestyle section, that would probably suggest good things are happening for her. If she was in jail, or getting released, that probably wouldn't be there. So perhaps she is putting her life back on track while Josh is still on the skids. That also may explain why he wants to go visit after everyone else leaves. Still so much to find out, but I'll admit that wasn't a turn I expected.
JL23
2024-07-23 19:21:16 +0000 UTCWouldn't it be a painful irony if it's Kimmy and Devlin married and raising Josh's biological daughter? It would be a very KT thing to write at least.
Glaucon
2024-07-23 19:20:09 +0000 UTCMy stomach is churning. I’m scared to read this, but also can’t wait to read this!
Kat
2024-07-23 19:16:55 +0000 UTC