DITW 15-12: Let Them Wait Here
Added 2024-08-31 19:55:33 +0000 UTCKimmy scratched her neck, stalling before she would answer. It was too good to be true anyway, that his wife had done so much to bait his return when he should have run to the hills and never stopped after her betrayal. He stepped away, lured now by the real bait that had bargained his return. Colleen slept in the crib by the bed, where he should lay his head every night. Kimmy turned her head to follow him, then sat up on the bed, crossing her legs.
“We had a lot saved,” she said.
“I know how much we had,” he said, then lifted Colleen from the crib mattress and held her to his chest. Those darling eyes opened and scanned his for a second. Then she screwed up her face. She didn’t cry, though, and he assumed she liked him. “And it wouldn’t be enough to get a loan for a house half this value.”
“And then, uh, I had a bonus from Stone.”
“A bonus?” He turned with Colleen in his arms, and Kimmy smiled at the sight.
“The money I took from Devlin was his father’s money. I reallocated from Devlin’s theft. I, I convinced Keith I’d done it on purpose.”
“Why would you do something like that on purpose?”
“To send up a distress call, you know, a smoke signal.”
“And he believed you?”
Kimmy bowed her head, played with the lapel of her robe. She was a liar. A weaver of webs. And she’d done it again to get out of the theft. Maybe she’d worked Keith Stone in circles like she’d done to her husband.
She said, “I had to convince them I wasn’t doing it to test the system before I stole a much larger sum of money. But since I took quite a bit, and I could account for what I’d spent, and it was all on work-related, well, luxuries . . . Anyway, in time, yes, he believed me.”
“How much did you take?”
“A lot, Josh.”
“A million dollars?”
“God, no, Josh. No, it wasn’t like that. It was, it was 75k.”
Josh braced Colleen and reeled. That was a serious crime. A felony amount. Worse than that. “How are you not in jail, Kimmy?”
“I did it in the open. It wasn’t a secret, really. Sometimes I thought Devlin knew I was doing it and didn’t care. He loved doing wrong things.”
“They gave you a bonus? You stole from them.”
“A bonus minus the 75k,” she admitted, showing an expression acknowledging they were right to hold it back.
“You stole from them. They hired you. They fired Devlin—Keith’s own son. And they pay you well.”
“It didn’t fall in my lap, Josh. I did the wrong things. Very wrong. And for a while I was pretty sure I would give birth to that little bundle”—she nodded to Colleen, held in his arms—“behind bars. But I worked my ass off to make it right with Stone. I worked my ass off to make it right with you, too. I did it all for you. All for us.” She nodded to Colleen again, smiling this time. “I want us to be together. It’s the only thing I want in life.”
He sighed at the weight of her words. All the things a man like him would want to hear. But trust was something he could never afford with Kimmy again. He’d surrendered trust to her when they married, and she’d done the worst things imaginable. He could never be vulnerable with her again. He came to the bed with their baby and sat at the edge, Kimmy near the center, cross-legged and surrounded by the shimmering folds of her robe.
“So a bonus got you the house?”
She didn’t answer, and he turned his attention from Colleen to her. She shook her head no.
“No?”
“It wasn’t that much money. But it helped. And, uh, I, um, I got help elsewhere.”
Whatever it was, it bothered her. But this time he didn’t jump to the conclusion she was on her back for the money. That wasn’t her. She didn’t fuck Devlin for money; she fucked him for the dark thrill. And Kimmy here tonight didn’t seem like the same woman pleased by dark thrills. He asked her where she got help.
Now she compressed, taking the robe’s lapel and tightening it around her collar, drawing up her knees. “I wanted a house for us. Not just any house, but a house of our dreams. You know?”
He nodded and waited for her to continue.
She exhaled, long and drawn out, taking her time with this. “And to make it right with us, um, I couldn’t have lies, you know, surrounding us. Where we have to pretend certain things when we’re with friends and family. So, uh, I went to my, to my dad.”
He frowned with sharp disbelief. “You told him?”
She raised her eyebrows, gaze cast out long across the room. “I did. Not everything, Josh. But I confessed to him. Told him what I’d done.”
“The money?” He tried to picture her father hearing she was a thief.
She cringed her brow, like his remark surprised her. “No. No, not that. That was just business. I sorted that out.”
They stared at each other and both could acknowledge their disconnected perspectives. But Kimmy defended herself no further. “I told him I’d been unfaithful, and that we split up and that I was pregnant, but I had ruined my marriage.”
“Was that when he stopped talking to me?”
“I don’t know, Josh. But listen, he loves you. He thinks you’re better than me. I broke his heart, Josh. He wants us to be together.”
“He bought the house?”
“No. No, it’s not like that.”
“Then tell me.”
“I told my dad what I did. I even told my sister. I wanted them to know. I failed.” She shrugged, smirking a wounded smile, taking some enjoyment in her ability to admit her defeat. “I failed, but I’m going to make everything better. I had enough for a down payment and my future earnings are good. But the job is new, and the bank didn’t think I, uh, qualify.”
“So your dad did what? Gave you money?”
“No, just cosigned. No money. It’s not his house, Josh. It’s our house.”
Now her smile seemed purer, and she leaned closer so they could both look at Colleen’s sleeping face.
“You could have bought another house on your own.”
She looked up at him. “Yeah. I could have.”
“Why here?”
“For you. I want us to have everything. I want our daughter to have everything. I want family.”
Colleen opened one eye, gurgled, then fidgeted into a more comfortable position. He carried her off the bed and returned her to her crib without rousing her. She settled, and he watched her for a moment before turning back to face his wife, sitting like a queen on their bed. “It’s all too perfect,” he said.
Kimmy looked disappointed and rubbed a shin under her robe.
He said, “I feel like I’m missing something.”
“Ask me, Josh, and I’ll tell you the truth.”
He rubbed a hand through his hair, knowing he was missing something, but not trusting he had the mind to track it down. He said, “Your dad, he just, what, accepted what you’d done? What you’d told him you’d done?”
“Well, he’s very angry with me. Worse.” She looked around, then sighed. “He’s disappointed. But he loves you. And he loves me. And my god, he loves Colleen.”
Josh rubbed the back of his neck, but came up with nothing. He shook his head. “I just still don’t understand how you ended up with everything.”
“I didn’t, Josh. I didn’t end up with everything.”
“Look at all you have.”
“When I convince you to stay, then I’ll have everything. And so would you.” She smiled again, showing much affection and hope.
He came to the bed, knelt on the mattress, then sat across from her. “If you had me, then you would have everything. Is it because you want me or is it because without me you can’t hold your head high, you can’t be proud of your daughter in front of people who know you because they’ll always think in the back of their head that the baby is Devlin’s?”
It injured her, hearing claims like that again from her husband’s mouth, but she took a breath and nodded, reached for his hands. He gave them to her. “I want you, Josh. And no one would think that. Just look at her. She’s as sweet and innocent as you are.”
They stared into each other’s eyes for a while. So much of what she said seemed true. And if it were true, this was a personal triumph. For your wife to see her badness and her betrayal and concoct the grandest gesture for her husband’s return. Doing everything right and by the book. All for him. All for his return.
He leaned closer, and she did too, coming together until their heads touched. He smoothed hands over her shoulders. Their mouths grazed, and this time, he wanted her. Wanted her back, wanted to return, wanted every gift she’d arranged for him. He kissed her slowly, and her lips trembled against his own. She touched his face, her fingertips going through his beard again. It felt so good to have her mouth on his. To touch her shoulders and to have her touch him.
But an unstoppable nagging distraction waved in his periphery. This was Kimmy doing her thing again. Ask me anything and I’ll tell you, Josh. Knowing her simple husband wouldn’t have the nefarious mind to ask the right question. The right question for him to ask her would be: will you tell me the thing you don’t want to tell me?
Their kiss broke, and she smiled, loving eyes looking deep into his. He let go of her shoulders and sat back.
She said, “That was nice. I’ve missed that so much.”
Colleen coughed and murmured, then mewled a little, but she settled. They both regarded the crib, waiting to see if their daughter would need help. She settled.
Tales of stolen money, of subterfuge, of high-level corporate gamesmanship; betrayal, wickedness, infidelity, humiliation. His wife humiliated him. His bully humiliated him. They worked together to do it. He’d broken his brain. He’d had a daughter and never came to see her. He suffered panic attacks. He rode a motorcycle down to Mexico and bought himself a leather jacket. And now they were together again. In a beautiful home with a beautiful baby. And no one punished Kimmy Chang. Not even when she stole $75,000. It was like she was untouchable.
He regarded Kimmy, then looked to the crib. Back to Kimmy. Kimmy rested her fingertips on his kneecaps in gentle claws.
He closed his eyes and groaned. Something slithered in his viscera, a creature from another time a year ago. “Oh no,” he sighed.
“What?”
He looked at her with her mock concern, her pretty face showing innocent puzzlement, her delicate brow showing the tiniest crinkle.
He said, “Does Keith Stone think Colleen’s his granddaughter?”
Comments
Like you guys, I'd like some clarity on this, mostly because there's so many variables that can determine how this ends up. Kimmy saying she hasn't slept with a man seems to indicate that she *has* slept with Hyun since she left at the end of the last book. But, even within that, there's a huge difference between having sex with Hyun when Kimmy first moved in with them after leaving Josh but has had no sexual contact since she bought this house and them having sex last week when Sophie was at Meyers with Uncle Josh. If Kimmy is truly committed to Josh, and she basically rewound her relationship with Hyun back to friends only, then I can see little benefit in sharing that with Josh. And honestly, while I think he deserves to know, if Kimmy never cheats again with Hyun, and is 100% devoted to Josh, then there's not really any point in sharing that past as it relates to their future. Other than the potential lie of ommission being found out. The flip side of that is if they're in an active sexual relationship, then Josh *must* be told. Because to me, that means Kimmy is lying about Josh being the only one that matters. Clearly Hyun does as well. That would be why she brought her to "their" home and she's sharing her love beyond just one person. Now, being a lover of harem books, far be it from me to say that can't work or that Kimmy would be wrong to love both of them, BUT, she can't lie to Josh about it and he needs to know what he's stepping into. And knowingly accept it. Otherwise this is just a Devlin 2.0 scenario where she's lying and cheating behind Josh's back, which will end up the exact same way, but worse, because I doubt Josh would stomach it a second time. So I'm not quite sure where this goes. I think Josh deserves to know, but there are a number of scenarios where him not knowing could end up fine. It's just the way Hyun is acting makes me feel like there's *more* there. In which case, none of this will end well, unless Kimmy somehow talks both of them into a threesome. Otherwise, it's just more cheating, and when, not if, but when, Josh finds out, because he will, then it's the end. Hopefully we get something somewhere in between all of those options that's salacious, yet believable and *not* a catastrophe.
L_S87
2024-09-04 02:32:49 +0000 UTCI hope so, too. If anything, from what we’ve seen, Hyun doesn’t seem all that enthused by Josh being there. I think there’s a lot more to their relationship. Whether it means the same to Kimmy we don’t know. I suspect not.
Kat
2024-09-03 22:25:25 +0000 UTCIf nothing else, I'd expect Josh to ask: "So....are Hyun and Sophie going to live here forever?" Not that he'd want to kick them out, but like he said in an earlier chapter...what am I walking into? I just feel like we're missing so much with Hyun and her relationship with Kimmy. Hopefully we're getting some clarity on it before the end.
JL23
2024-09-03 20:44:53 +0000 UTCIt’s confusing to me, as well. The first few times we see Hyun in the story she’s Sophie’s mom, and a potential friend to Kimmy, who needs someone to confide in, and maybe someone she could bring in to play with Devlin. Later on she finds out that Hyun has feelings towards her, and she sees her as someone she could tempt Josh with, to help her with the situation with Devlin. After Josh finds the panties, Hyun becomes her confidant. She’s the first person Kimmy tells about her pregnancy. She also becomes her insurance policy in case Josh tries to cast her out. She is intimate with Hyun, and at first it’s a means to an end for her. Later on in the story, she seems to really enjoy her time with Hyun. She takes her to a sex store and buys them strap ons. She even refers to her as her lover and her girlfriend. All of this while she’s fretting over being separated from Josh. She doesn’t seem to have any guilt about what she’s doing with Hyun. After she leaves Josh, she moves in with Hyun and Sophie. We don’t know what happened between them here. Were they just friends, friends with benefits or actual lovers? Hyun said she held Kimmy’s hand through the past year, and she was there for her when she gave birth to Colleen. When Kimmy bought the house she moved Hyun and Sophie in with her and Colleen. She’s paying for everything, and leased Hyun a car. She did all of this with the knowledge and intent of eventually getting back together with Josh. That’s the part that’s confusing to me. If her end game is Josh, how does she keep her secret lover in the house with them, and not tell Josh the truth? She said no more lies, but it seems like the stuff about Hyun is not weighing on her. It doesn’t seem to be of any importance right now. It’s like being with Hyun doesn’t count as cheating on Josh. How does that make Hyun feel? Hyun is clearly only loyal to Kimmy, but it must hurt her to be the second choice. What’s Kimmy’s thinking here? I could understand not telling Josh about Hyun if that relationship was over, and Hyun wasn’t still there with them every day. I can’t imagine that they have only just been friends in the past year. Maybe they have an agreement to keep it all secret for the sake of the family, for Sophie? Maybe Hyun always knew that there was no future with Kimmy. Her loyalty seems misplaced, because Kimmy is choosing Josh over her. She doesn’t even deem their relationship important enough to confess it to Josh. We all know it would blow things up if that info got out, but what is Hyun to Kimmy?
Kat
2024-09-03 17:21:50 +0000 UTCHer mindset regarding what she did with Hyun is just confusing to me. The first couple of encounters, it seemed like maybe her ultimate plan was to bring Hyun into her games with Josh (and even Devlin), then Josh found the panties and everything kind of changed. She turned to survival mode for her marriage, and Hyun took a backseat. The last couple of times were when she was estranged from Josh for various reasons, and she talked about Hyun more as a comfort for her, and also about the need to "protect" Hyun from her dark nature. Then Josh fell in the lake. That seemed to sober Kimmy up to participating in anything wicked, but does she consider what she did with Hyun "wicked?" I'm just not sure, and we don't know what has happened between them in the past year. Hyun says she knows everything Kimmy did, but does she really? And was she "comforting" Kimmy in other ways more than holding her hand? So maybe a big reason why I'd want to see it addressed is to see how she'd explain it to Josh. Would she be chastened and beg for forgiveness? Or would she snap into lawyer mode, and perhaps even be dismissive that Josh would take offense to it?
JL23
2024-09-03 16:18:22 +0000 UTCI never thought about it that way, JL, that Kimmy doesn’t feel she has to confess about her affair with Hyun. To her it’s just something that happened, and has to be kept secret. I was viewing it as Kimmy giving more respect and deference to Hyun, but maybe it’s that her affair with Hyun is not as important to her as being with Josh. Hyun is fine as an occasional FWB, and caretaker of her daughter/friend, but Josh is the most important person in her life. I wonder how that makes Hyun feel?
Kat
2024-09-03 15:31:32 +0000 UTCI think Hyun will be the one to bring Josh around. Hyun knows what Kimmy has been through, and probably knows Kimmy's true desires. Josh will always second guess himself when it comes to Kimmy, despite what either of them wants. Josh seems to still hold some amount of respect for Hyun and Hyun seems past being timid.
Wayne
2024-09-03 14:56:41 +0000 UTCOK yeah I see you meant that's how Josh would see the apartment now. It feels like he's danced around in his own mind the idea of Hyun having interest in Kimmy, and how she seems to look at him as a threat, so I have to think he's going to circle around to asking Kimmy. How she responds will be very interesting. It just doesn't feel to me like Kimmy thinks anything with Hyun is something she needs to confess to Josh. But I could be misreading her intent totally. Just feels like her big secret, in her mind, was stealing the money. Thinking more about it, I also wonder if there is something to Josh's question at the end. Not that Kimmy expressly said to Keith it was Devlin's baby, but perhaps he just assumes it, and since Kimmy was looking to get out of trouble she never corrected that assumption?
JL23
2024-09-03 14:40:53 +0000 UTCNo, we see the apartment the same way. That statement was from Josh's POV. That's why I said I think I get why Kimmy did it. She did it as a carrot because she thought he might be skittish (and she was right) and wanted a stepping stone between jumping directly into her bed. That's what she wants, but she's pragmatic enough to realize that if you give him a binary question, your chances are high of getting a 0. This way she hedges her bets. She just didn't predict that Josh would see the apartment as a prison rather than a gift. Mostly because from her POV, she's dying without him, but he sees all her success and attributes it to her desire to look accomplished and in control, rather than her actual reason of wanting to provide something for him to come back to. It's not really helped by her manipulative seduction or the secrets he can tell she'd hiding.
L_S87
2024-09-03 11:45:32 +0000 UTCI guess I don’t see the apartment quite that way L_S. I don’t think having him live in the apartment was ever what she wanted, she wants him in her bed. But she was worried that would be too much, too soon, so the apartment became the way to keep him close while they hopefully reconnected. But like most things, I think she didn’t quite understand how Josh would look at that offer.
JL23
2024-09-03 11:21:06 +0000 UTCThat's a great point, JL. Her hard work was, in her mind, all for Josh, and she was building this for him, while also dealing with the shame and problems her bad behavior had created. I get it from her standpoint that she thought she might be in jail, and she didn't want Josh to have to suffer with that. The flip side is, all of her hard work paid off, but from Josh's POV, she's got everything with no consequences and because she's not included him in *any* of it, he has no idea what she's gone through or why she did any of this. All he sees are the results that feel like this is her life, not his. Not theirs. Hyun clearly tried to clue him into that, but she's a biased narrator, and Josh clearly isn't going to trust her when she says Kimmy punished herself, yet makes it sound like that's all Josh's fault and he's to blame for her poor choices. Like his feelings and depression are his own fault and don't matter. Kimmy doesn't feel this way, but Hyun's attitude probably didn't help in this case, beyond the good point of telling him to talk to her. At the end of the day, I think Kimmy would have had much better results if she'd led with how being apart from him is killing her, and that she made a bad decision to walk away and compounded that by staying away rather than saying "This is all for you." Because for Josh, it feels like this is all for her and Hyun, especially when she wants to put him in a separate apartment. I think I get her reason for that, but Josh had it right. That's not a way for them to get back together, it's just a prison while he watched Kimmy and Hyun play house.
L_S87
2024-09-03 02:11:32 +0000 UTCOr is Kimmy Aeneas descending into the underworld beneath Lake Avernus seeking a vision of the future? If she emerges from Hell, will it be from the Gate of Horn, or the Gate of Ivory? In the Aeneid, Aeneas and 'his' guide the Sybil leave the underworld through the second gate which is used by false dreams, deceptive dreams. This could be because they are 'false shades' ie they are not souls of the dead... or it could be their visions were duplicitous! Dream and Death are brothers... so they have 'their' entrances and exits from Hades' realm.
Bill F Protagoras
2024-09-02 18:54:45 +0000 UTCNever really came across (and by that I mean, was forced to read in school) Dante’s Inferno. Just was never in my realm of interests I suppose. But based on my limited knowledge of it, and reading up a bit on the Google machine, I can see it applying to this epilogue. Is Josh being guided through purgatory like Dante, and will come to acknowledge that humans are prone to sin, but also have the free will to change their behavior and find salvation? And is Kimmy his guide, his Virgil? I don’t have the mind to break it down further beyond any of the superficial explanations. But Josh is taking a journey here, and it’s up to him to determine what he’s learned on the other side of the mountain.
JL23
2024-09-02 18:29:30 +0000 UTCWell said Steve. I hadn’t even picked up on the no benzo’s since meeting Colleen. Great point about Devlin, too!
Bill H.
2024-09-01 21:56:48 +0000 UTCVery pertinent remarks about Hyun... I have my fingers crossed for her. Can't fault the judgement of a man who likes Zappa, Steve!
Bill F Protagoras
2024-09-01 21:14:01 +0000 UTCI wonder if maybe she's too focused on the grand gestures as the way to redeem herself in Josh's eyes. Those are all great things, and clearly she worked hard and made sacrifices to achieve all of them. That is noble IMO, but I don't know whether Josh needed her to do any of that to "earn" him back. In his mind, he needs to be able to trust her again, and nothing she's done here really gives him that comfort. In a perverse way, it might make it harder cause it seems to have fostered greater resentment in his mind to her, the fact that she didn't crumble like he did when they were apart. So she thinks this is all going to bring them back, I just wonder if it's going to push them apart. Or at least delay the full reconciliation she wants to happen immediately.
JL23
2024-09-01 20:44:19 +0000 UTCOne of those things that KT probably already knows that have influenced her return to Virgil's Avernus and its influence on Dante's Christian hell is the Roman Catholic Church's resistance to the greatest pagan elements of the Renaissance. Alberto Manguel, Argentinian and Canadian, wrote a fascinating study of this, in his brilliant "Homer's Iliad and Odyssey: A Biography (2008)"* which tells how the Church basically banned the translation of the great Greek Epics in the countries it controlled, mainly the Italian States, and Spain, Portugal and those parts of Europe that the Church controlled economically and religiously... a major portion of Europe... except for the Byzantine Empire where Greek culture, even after the Turkish conquest was preserved. So basically Dante knew the epics only through Latin texts available in 'Italian'... thus the influence of Virgil and his origin story of the Roman Empire. Which is what leads us to the underworld visit of Aeneas betrayer of Dido and scion of Venus (Aphrodite), to discover a vision of the future of his and the survivors of Troy's dynastic line in the Augustan Glory that was Rome. And leads us to Minos of Knossos who is one of the main judges in Hell (and in Hades), indicating with his long serpentine tail which circle of Hell the 'damnable' souls should inhabit for eternity. Those who in the Inferno were told where to await Minos's judgement on their fate... *Anyone who doesn't appreciate the importance of the works of Homer should read or listen to this relatively short, but impressive book!
Bill F Protagoras
2024-09-01 20:12:11 +0000 UTCRegarding #2, the question of nobility is an interesting one. LS, you suggest a good distinction: Does nobility require both noble intent as well as noble action, or can an action be noble regardless of the motive? My thought is that perhaps one can parse nobility of thought and nobility of action, as discrete measurables. In this case, I was initially focused just on Kimmy's act of telling her father something so shameful, which strikes me as VERY courageous. It truly sounds both monumental, and horrific.... admitting something so shameful to someone so dear; someone whose opinion probably matters so much to her. So since I think of courage as a noble trait, I do think that act of hers was a noble one. But...that doesn't make Kimmy noble. It simply means that this one act of hers, to my mind, was a noble one to the extent that it took a great deal of courage, and I think courage is a noble quality. The nobility of her character, on the other hand, depends on scales weighted down on the other side by her lies, manipulations, and conspiracy with Devlin, just to name a few. A heavy weight of ignobility, to be sure. Regarding #3 and redemption, you're spot on regarding it depending on the beholder. Josh's perspective, her father's, Hyun's, and the reader's may all differ. For example, her actions over the last year may have redeemed her in Hyun's eyes, but not Josh's.
Pete
2024-09-01 20:00:47 +0000 UTCLol Donkatsu. I got that one. If Kimmy is trying to forge a new beginning without lies, I can't think of better guides than the Nixon White House. Right? Oh wait...
JL23
2024-09-01 18:47:57 +0000 UTCOne of KT's pithiest lines, and that is saying something! Maybe we are headed toward a modified limited HEA. Too bad John Ehrlichman is not around to guide Kimmy in this regard.
Donkatsu
2024-09-01 18:22:04 +0000 UTCLS wrote: "That's why I pushed so hard about Josh's response being out of character and wrong when he basically ignored Hyun's comment about knowing "everything". That would mortify him." I fully agree, and I think LS' reminder about why he walked off the pier brought it home for me. I will say that I do understand him not "immediately" reacting in anger. It's very possible that he was caught off guard by Hyun. That might explain him not arguing back all that much, and not getting very angry. Though, the more he ponders how Kimmy told Hyun "everything," I do think that'll lead to shame/embarrassment, and then anger toward Kimmy. One additional thought about Hyun being "unfair" in that talk. Hyun only has Kimmy's words and perspective go by... she doesn't have the top down view that we do as readers. And it's natural for 1. Friends tend to side with friends; 2. Women to side with women, and men to side with men (Meyer was even guilty of an "all women are bitches" type talk with Josh early on in DITW); and maybe most crucially 3. Kimmy's perspective may have (even if it was fully honest) used pejorative words and inflections that cast Josh in a bad light. I've encountered this multiple times in RL...much to my chagrin. Maybe it's unethical, maybe it's unconscious, maybe it's human nature (that's all debatable), but I think it is common. And I can see #3 being a factor that colored Hyun's perception of things, in combination with her lack of the reader's top down view of everything. Unfair to Josh? Sure. I'm just not sure she had/has the full picture.
Pete
2024-09-01 18:02:34 +0000 UTCLS, thanks for elaborating on that. You're right... Kimmy created this bed she now lies in. She's reaping what she sowed.
Pete
2024-09-01 17:09:42 +0000 UTCL_S, your second paragraph really describes where I’m at with Hyun and Kimmy. I really think that Josh would have a visceral reaction to finding out about Hyun, and realizing that she knows more about him and his kinks and shame than almost anyone else. That Kimmy protected her, but not him. I don’t see how he deals with this, unless their relationship is now one of friends. Even still, it’s going to be hard to deal with her living with Kimmy and being taken care of. Kimmy’s going to have to make a choice, Hyun or Josh. I don’t see how they all remain civil with each other and how Meyer isn’t drawn into it, as well.
Kat
2024-09-01 16:56:27 +0000 UTCThat's a great observation JL, regarding how she describes Josh. I see what you mean. I know I myself would wince at being described that way. It would feel a bit emasculating. That said, maybe Josh is different than me. I think one of the (perhaps) under-discussed merits of DITW is how it centers assumptions about masculinity and about what women want in their primary partner.
Pete
2024-09-01 16:36:26 +0000 UTCPete, those are some damn good questions. Very thought provoking. 1. For me, it says she does what she has to do, just like she's always said she would. Regardless of circumstances. For her to ask for her father to cosign, she needed an explanation. She needed one that wouldn't bite her in the ass when her plans, hopefully, came to fruition and Josh came back. How would it look to Josh if she lied to her family about who was responsible for this mess? I will say she also likely did it because she wanted the entire onus on her, she wanted her family to know this wasn't Josh's fault and it was all on her, but she was working her ass off to make it right. 2. I don't think so. It was the right thing to do, but I think her motives aren't what I would call noble. She didn't do this out of the goodness of her heart, or at least not fully. She did it as a step to get Josh back. She took what she knew was going to be a blow to her standing in the family and would tarnish her so she could achieve her goals. Plus, at some point, if she got back with Josh, they would find out anyway. Better from her where she can shape the narrative then from Josh. 3. Redemption is in the eye of the beholder. So from that perspective, it only matters if it helped her with Josh. I don't think it redeems her, but it is a step in the way towards that path, and one that I think Josh would appreciate. Which is probably why she did it.
L_S87
2024-09-01 12:24:27 +0000 UTCDevlin is the one who is scourging himself with regrets and bitter animus and I imagine his 'Greek Chorus' of sycophants, hockey goons and two-faced 'mean girls' have all wandered off for greener pastures. Gone are his glory days endowed by good looks, early puberty and wealth. The bitter pill hardest to swallow has to be the betrayal by Kimmy, his 'piece de resistance', his ivory statue that he kissed to life as Pygmalion- "was a Cypriot sculptor who carved a woman out of ivory alabaster." (re Wikipedia)
Steve McCarty
2024-09-01 10:39:04 +0000 UTCJosh-correct me if I'm wrong he has not needed a 'benzo' since he met Coleen. You could argue this is not realistic as these drugs are insidious and highly addictive but I am all about half full glasses at this point. He has also been quite calm conversing topics with his wife that would have triggered a 'flight' response. I think that Kimmy's father is not the only one that loves Colleen. Kimmy-ok a major mistake with the 'Old Man Stone as a lover' scenario but she immediately 'fessed up' and apologized. I am sentimental and was pleased with the photos Kimmy has on her night table. Hyun-She is where she desperately wants to be, close to Kimmy, but she is playing a role of a professional, competent housekeeper and surrogate mother, with great perquisites, for herself and her daughter while the close proximity to her sweetheart has to be a form of torture. Is the brief embrace, by the fridge, enough to perform as a 'domestic servant' during the open house? I think Hyun has had her feelings hurt on several occasions by Kimmy, just because they were unintentional does not in any way make them easier to bear. Hyun and Josh-Hyun did not bully Josh in High School and does not have a penis of any size, be it AA or a 'donkey dick' that can touch Kimmy's 'spot that gets her hot' (h/t to Zappa's "Dina-Moe Humm") which may or may not make the Kimmy/Hyun affair different in Josh's eyes.
Steve McCarty
2024-09-01 07:53:20 +0000 UTCIt's probably also important to note that Kimmy is the one that setup this "no win" scenario of having to hide this and support Hyun at Josh's expense or tell Josh to show her commitment to him and renewing their marriage and risk alienating Hyun. I will note that part of my view on this is heavily influenced by the fact that both Hyun and Kimmy are being massive hypocrites by thinking it's okay to air and discuss all of Josh's dirty secrets and kinks yet it's okay to hide their own sins because the knowledge would be "too painful" to divulge. It don't get much more painful then almost killing yourself to get away from other people knowing all your dirty dark secrets and yet your wife happily divulges all of them to her friend as if it doesn't matter. That's why I pushed so hard about Josh's response being out of character and wrong when he basically ignored Hyun's comment about knowing "everything". That would mortify him. It's certainly something I would see him bringing up to Kimmy in anger that she would divulge his secrets. Yet it's not okay for Kimmy to divulge Hyun's? Very wrong to me. Especially for someone that "loves" him as much as she says she does.
L_S87
2024-09-01 04:29:15 +0000 UTCThanks KT loved 2 days in a row!
Tim ziegler
2024-09-01 04:11:16 +0000 UTCYou can’t bitch you didn’t want her test!
Tim ziegler
2024-09-01 04:09:57 +0000 UTCPete, I didn't do the greatest job with my phrasing on that, for which I apologize. But at the core of it, if she truly loves only Josh and he's the only thing that really matters to her, which she's said multiple times during this last book, then she should tell him the truth. To answers your questions. 1. Yes. 2. Yes. 3. No. 3 is a bit of a strawman for me. Just because I say she should tell him doesn't mean that "betraying" Hyun is redemption. You're trying to imply that I think two wrongs make a right, and that's not the case. What I'm saying is that if she wants to do right by Josh and truly believes those things she's said, then she should tell him because he deserves to know what he's signing up for. Because he's not just accepting someone who cheated on him once, he's accepting someone who cheated on him twice, and is actively supporting and allowing that second person she cheated with to live with her. If she truly means to reset things between them and wants their marriage to have meaning, then this is too big a thing to hide. That doesn't mean she can't hide it. Clearly she can. But Josh is so cognizant of it based on his questions that it will simply be a betrayal to him if she hides this when he finds out. So I guess my point would be, that if she doesn't "unilaterally" tell Josh, she's simply betraying him again, and more so because she has the knowledge of what it did before and is willfully making that choice. Again. So what's worse? Betraying Hyun or betraying Josh. Those are the two choices she has, as we currently see it.
L_S87
2024-09-01 03:50:39 +0000 UTC"But trust was something he could never afford with Kimmy again. He’d surrendered trust to her when they married, and she’d done the worst things imaginable. He could never be vulnerable with her again."
Bill F Protagoras
2024-09-01 01:43:58 +0000 UTCOne other thing I picked up on: When Josh asks if she needs him to have everything because then no one would question whether the baby's father was Devlin, she tells him no one would think that. Because the baby is as "sweet and innocent" as you. I found that an interesting way to describe your husband, and was a bit surprised Josh didn't push back at getting described like that. She mentioned last chapter Josh was almost acting paternal towards her, about her stealing. She didn't take offense to it. But here, I feel like she's almost acting "maternal" towards Josh in describing him that way. And not in a way I think he'd be pleased.
JL23
2024-09-01 01:04:40 +0000 UTCI do think it says she's trying to do things in a way Josh can accept. Going to her father means they aren't beholden to anyone, or have to explain how they got the money, like they would be if she say went to Keith Stone and asked for a loan or something like that. I think confessing to her family and putting herself in a negative light was an exceptionally hard thing for her to do. But I'm also not sure Josh is of a mind to see that, or give her credit for it. This chapter just gives me the feeling that while Josh does have enduring love for Kimmy, as she described last chapter, he also has enduring resentment toward her, and how he perceives she still gets away with everything. He doesn't see her worrying over going to jail, her worrying she may lose her baby, or having to confess some sins to her family as true suffering, like he has gone through. I guess the question is what feeling is more enduring for him: the love, or the resentment?
JL23
2024-09-01 00:52:17 +0000 UTCI was very surprised that she told her dad and sister that she cheated on Josh. I would say it redeems her somewhat, but the full extent of her betrayal could never be explained to them. It shows that she at least had some guilt for what she did, and wanted to take responsibility for the break up, and not lay it on Josh.
Kat
2024-09-01 00:32:53 +0000 UTCI'm wondering how folks feel about Kimmy telling her Dad and sister that she was unfaithful. 1. What does that say about her character? 2. We've mentioned nobility...Was that a noble act by Kimmy? 3. Does that act redeem her?
Pete
2024-09-01 00:16:33 +0000 UTCLove the 'damnable'... nice legal distinction.
Bill F Protagoras
2024-09-01 00:11:52 +0000 UTCMinos, the circle judge. "Here come the damnable, let them wait here." (Dante's Inferno)
KT Morrison
2024-09-01 00:06:04 +0000 UTCYeah, I think this is going to blow things up, especially for Josh. I don’t know how he avoids telling Meyer without alienating himself away from everyone he loves and cares about. How could Josh keep that secret, and also appear to be the bad guy in this scenario, without losing himself? He’s already on shaky ground, mentally.
Kat
2024-09-01 00:03:41 +0000 UTC"Her simple husband"... You kill me with your unaccentuated hints...
Bill F Protagoras
2024-09-01 00:00:38 +0000 UTCYou make it look so easy, KT. Which is a skill very few achieve.
Bill F Protagoras
2024-08-31 23:51:40 +0000 UTCBait and switch. Or switch and bait.
Bill F Protagoras
2024-08-31 23:46:24 +0000 UTCThough I have never envisioned myself using the expression... Has Kimmy well and truly screwed the pooch?
Bill F Protagoras
2024-08-31 23:39:36 +0000 UTC"Kimmy rested her fingertips on his kneecaps in gentle claws." Love it!
Bill F Protagoras
2024-08-31 23:33:49 +0000 UTC"Let Them Wait Here..." Too many possibilities... A play... Twelfth Night? Throughout DITW Kimmy strikes many more deliberate poses than have caught my attention in other works by KT. Am I mistaken?
Bill F Protagoras
2024-08-31 23:21:36 +0000 UTCI wonder if it’s going to put him in an impossible position. I think he’ll know he can’t go nuclear and reveal it, that’ll create a mess that could impact the life of Sophie especially, but also Meyer. So it’ll leave him either forced to swallow it and forgive Kimmy, and try to move forward with her. Or he’ll have to break it off without being able to explain exactly why he’s ending it after all these grand gestures his wife made to get him back. Given his current state, I just don’t know how he could swallow it and move forward with Kimmy. The resentment he’d feel would be so great that I can’t imagine they could rebuild a relationship back. But I also think he can’t bear the scenario of giving up on Kimmy and then watching her eventually move on without him, maybe even with Hyun somehow. Over time, if it seemed over with Josh, something real with Hyun could develop without anyone really batting an eyelash. Josh left her in that scenario. Meanwhile, he’d know the truth and that Kimmy yet again gets away with it in his mind. Man, I went back to thinking darkly again after reading this one.
JL23
2024-08-31 23:09:31 +0000 UTCBeautiful, the far too smooth talking, guileless Kimmy has been asked a question that had occurred to me before this book began... Obviously not to 'Colleen' in particular... Has this entire meeting with Josh, set up in relative isolation, been a shell game to give her greater confidence in winning Josh back. If so not clever enough... or too clever for her own good! Along with Kimmy's self confessed 'control' of the situation, the mere credibility of the question's relevance is a kind of answer in itself. She just couldn't trust 'poor' Josh without meddling. If something looks too good to be true skepticism is a priority! Hubris...
Bill F Protagoras
2024-08-31 23:08:14 +0000 UTCPete, your thoughts are a big reason why even way back several books ago when it happened, I thought it was beyond irresponsible of Kimmy to get involved with Hyun. Cause you’re right, it’s not just Josh she’s impacted, it’s Hyun, Sophie, even Meyer…the people they seemingly care about the most. There’s no good way to reveal all that without at least one of those people getting caught in the cross fire. But maybe that’s going to be the lesson here, and what Kimmy finally “pays” for. Maybe Josh is going to keep that secret, if he finds it out, to protect Sophie and Meyer, but it’s going to lead him to break it off officially with Kimmy.
JL23
2024-08-31 22:58:57 +0000 UTCYeah, I can see this blowing up in Kimmy’s face. She made a point of saying that she hadn’t been with another man all year. That conveniently leaves room for Hyun. This part stood out to me, “He’d broken his brain. He’d had a daughter and never came to see her. He suffered panic attacks.” Now compare that to what Kimmy did during the same time for Hyun. She took care of her, moved her and Sophie in free of charge, leased her a car, gave her a job, etc. Josh literally had a mental breakdown, that Kimmy knew about, but did nothing to help him. If Josh finds out that Kimmy and Hyun were intimate in that house together, and Hyun is still living there, I think that’s a deal breaker. How can it not be? Also, I don’t think Josh will have sympathy at all for Hyun. I think he’ll see her as the competition, as well as a partner in Kimmy’s betrayal and his humiliation. Hyun was just really tough with him in the dining room. It could be read as giving him the kick in the ass he needs, or it could be viewed as by Josh, Hyun’s bitterness because she wants Kimmy for herself. Kimmy leaned on her to get her through the past year. She got all Kimmy’s confessions, while all Josh got was radio silence. I just think Josh will not look too kindly to Hyun.
Kat
2024-08-31 22:31:22 +0000 UTCIt kind of just felt to me in this chapter that Josh is looking for a reason not to give in to what Kimmy wants. He senses he’s missing something (and we know he is) and also, I think he still has resentment that in his mind, Kimmy used her wiles and manipulation to get out of a jam. That he’s the last piece in her puzzle, and if says yes, then she gets everything again with no real consequences. Not entirely fair, but definitely how he sees it right now. You brought up a good point about her dad and sister. Telling them what happened, or at least a spin that makes her totally at fault, and then asking for help would be a bitter pill for her to swallow. One I think she truly took for Josh, to get their dream house, but also not one he’d be inclined to see in that way. I will say, it’s a little too convenient for me too, that she was able to get out from under at least repaying the money. I know she says they withheld that from what she would have gotten as a hiring bonus, but still, I’m not sure I’d buy the idea she could justify all that as business “luxury” expenses. Maybe her clothes and shoes, but how about Josh’s suit and Hyun’s coat? I find it hard to imagine a guy like Stone would buy all that and hand the keys to his company over to her. Anyway, it’s a minor point. I also think you’re onto something on how Kimmy shields Hyun, and how Josh will view that. I’m honestly not even sure she’s really prepared for Josh to ask about her, I really feel like she’s “walled” that behavior off in her own mind as distinct from anything that would be seen as a “betrayal” of Josh. When she says, ask me anything, I don’t think him asking if she’s involved with Hyun is something she thinks he’ll ask. So now I am intrigued for him to ask it. If she gets defensive about it, or tries to explain it away and why Josh shouldn’t be upset over it, I think that will end badly for her. I don’t think Josh would go nuclear to the point he’d call it out in front of everyone and impact Sophie’s life, but I do feel in his current mindset, it will be the reasoning he’ll use to not “submit” to Kimmy’s wish he live in the house with her and start to rebuild their family.
JL23
2024-08-31 22:30:56 +0000 UTCFully agree: It never would have occurred to me to ask the question that Josh did. That wasn't anywhere on my radar.
Pete
2024-08-31 22:29:24 +0000 UTCLS, I don't follow why that suggestion means that others "matter more" than Josh. That feels like hyperbole to me. My intent was simply to convey that if Kimmy were to reveal that secret to Josh unilaterally (without Hyun's knowledge), then she'd be trading one betrayal for another. I assume from your response that you disagree. I think KT has crafted a really interesting moral dilemma. If Kimmy takes a "brute force" approach to clearing her conscience with Josh, she arguably acts cruelly and selfishly to Hyun, betraying Hyun's trust, and potentially setting wheels in motion that may devastate lives. Who knows what the fallout may be? Because your response confuses me, I'll ask you: To your mind.... 1. Is the cuckolded husband owed honesty from his wife, at ANY cost to those they both love? 2. Are you saying that all lives, relationships, and hearts are second now to the honesty Josh is entitled to? 3. And that Kimmy can redeem her character by betraying Hyun's trust, so long as it does right by Josh?
Pete
2024-08-31 22:28:39 +0000 UTC100% right, Kat. I said similar responding to your other post. How Josh views this, if it comes out, will be totally predicated on if Kimmy made sure they were "just friends" when Hyun moved in. He could be very sympathetic to Hyun if it was just her getting caught up in Kimmy's wickedness when she was also cheating with Devlin. I don't know that he'd give Kimmy a pass, but I think he'd work himself around it. But if they've been having sex since Hyun moved in? Which Kimmy's pointed "not having sex with a man" comment seems to indicate they have, then he'll be very hurt. Because you're right. How could he not look at that as anything but another massive betrayal that she would look out for Hyun, support Hyun, for months, as a sex buddy, while she left him to rot. Yes, I think I get Kimmy's reasoning for struggling to contact Josh and wanting everything to be lined up, the fact she would support Hyun and not him would be galling and brutally painful. Perhaps making him want to leave, at least for a time.
L_S87
2024-08-31 22:08:46 +0000 UTCThat's a good point, Kat, about how Josh would view Hyun, but I think a lot of how he reacted will depend on how Kimmy framed it and whether they're still together or not. If she says "We had sex two days ago", yep, he's gonna get *very* adversarial. If it's, we did some things when I was being a heinous bitch back when I was still working for Devlin but since she moved in we've kept it strictly friends... I could see Josh being worried, but also understanding of Hyun's position. Probably even sympathetic, cause she got trapped in the web of Mrs Evil as well.
L_S87
2024-08-31 21:30:34 +0000 UTCI think so. Josh will be the one to punish her by withholding his love. I kind of hope he doesn’t do this, not because of the HEA, but because it’s not what Josh wants to do. He’s going to just hurt both of them. He should at least move in. It’s his house, too.
Kat
2024-08-31 21:29:39 +0000 UTCThat could be the conversation that blows everything up. How could it not? I think the thing that Josh might be most hurt about is her protection of Hyun. That she waited until he asked, because she didn’t want to betray Hyun’s confidence. That she moved her into to the house, and is taking care of her. If I were Josh, that kind of thing would hurt me way more than if they just hooked up when Kimmy was in her “out of control” phase.
Kat
2024-08-31 21:27:23 +0000 UTCI think he went there because of the paragraph where he thought about how all of this was "too easy" for her and everything went perfectly and she's got it all (except him, of course) and so he's searching for the missing piece. Telling her father and sister was a huge thing, and probably pretty damn painful. Not easy at all. But we all know how Josh's mind works. He's going to look for the worst before accepting that everything is as it seems. Then again, he also knows it's not, given he keeps having throughts about Hyun. So he knows that's not quite right either, but it could be a lower priority in his mind. Get the Stone stuff out of the way *then* ask about that. Or perhaps he's saving the worst for last, knowing how contentious that conversation would be.
L_S87
2024-08-31 21:21:26 +0000 UTCI think, that the Josh of last year would have been repulsed and furious at Kimmy for sleeping with Sophie’s mom. This Josh, if the affair has been over for some time, would probably deal with it okay. but might not trust all her details. But he would definitely be watching Hyun with different eyes, like she’s now his adversary.
Kat
2024-08-31 21:15:27 +0000 UTCHuh. Of all the things to think up, that one never occurred to me. I can see why Josh went there, because it *does* seem odd that Mr. Hard Ass would be so forgiving. And given Josh's thought that everything is a bit *too* perfect, I can see why he would go there. Like others, I thought he was going to ask about Hyun. He's obviously seen it, and he clearly thinks she's hiding something. I wonder if he was going to ask that then instead had this "epiphany". Of course, the next chapter could easily be Kimmy saying "What?? No!" And then Josh asking what he thought to himself he should ask "there's something your not telling me, Kimmy, what is it? No more lies, what are you hiding?"
L_S87
2024-08-31 21:15:23 +0000 UTCI think he meant "her" mock concern. Meaning she's still playing him in some way. His mind hasn't turned around to Hyun yet, but I kind of think it will. I don't think it's the Keith grandfather thing. I think Kimmy will dismiss that and then maybe he comes around to thinking to ask about Hyun. You can just feel he's searching for a reason why this is too good to be true and also some bit of resentment that Kimmy is getting away with everything again. If no one else will punish her, maybe it's up to him to do it. By withholding the one thing she claims to want more than anything...him. Learning about Hyun could be what he needs to do that.
JL23
2024-08-31 21:14:19 +0000 UTCSo what you're saying is they are more important than Josh? Because that's what that means. Although I will say that a *lot* of the right or wrong of telling him depends on where their relationship currently sits. The way Hyun is acting, it seems like they are still a thing having semi regular sex. If that's the case, Josh 100% deserves to know what he's stepping into. If they're just close friends now, Hyun wants more and is mad that Kimmy said no more sex months ago because she wants to focus on Josh.... well... He still deserves to know, but I don't know that it's that big a deal and as long as Kimmy stayed committed, it wouldn't ever really matter.
L_S87
2024-08-31 21:07:58 +0000 UTCDoes he really think this is the missing question? KT started the previous paragraph off with this, “He looked at her with her mock concern.” Mock concern? Mock concern is not serious. Is he maybe not asking seriously? Hyun seems to be the furthest thing from his mind right now.
Kat
2024-08-31 20:49:33 +0000 UTCBeen thinking about Kimmy telling Josh about Hyun, and the more I consider it.... Kimmy does NOT have the right to unilaterally decide to tell Josh that. Nor does Hyun. Revealing that secret would wreak havoc on and hurt... Hyun Meyer Sophie And perhaps others.
Pete
2024-08-31 20:45:22 +0000 UTCI think you’re on to something here. I’m so dense I never picked up on anything related to Hyun. I’ll have to read it again. The Keith Stone grandfather thing is definitely not it. I was glad to hear she told her dad and sister about the cheating. I was thinking we’re almost there, not much story left. It’s very warm here right now and I’m sitting in the sun. It made me forget all about Hyun!
Kat
2024-08-31 20:41:49 +0000 UTCYeah, that’s what he thinks he’s missing. He knows she told Devlin the baby was his to mess with him, so it would explain maybe why Keith is being so generous. I just don’t think that’s what he’s missing obviously.
JL23
2024-08-31 20:40:44 +0000 UTCMaybe I'm mistaken, but I think he just asked the question he thought he was missing: Does Keith Stone think Colleen is his granddaughter? Because if he does....the Stones, including Devlin, are still in their lives.
Pete
2024-08-31 20:38:22 +0000 UTCThanks KT for two chapters back to back!
Kat
2024-08-31 20:21:21 +0000 UTCYeah, I think we know what the question is that he doesn’t know to ask right? But maybe he does. Kimmy does not seem in any way to be thinking of confessing about Hyun to me. Maybe cause she doesn’t think it was wrong? Or maybe more accurately, that it’s separate from her more specific betrayals of Josh with Devlin. That it was just something she needed in the moment? Anyway, my first thought from this chapter is Josh’s mind is going to click and ask about Hyun. And that he’s not going to be so forgiving about it. It’s pretty clear he wants all this be to true, but something nags at him. It’s too easy, too simple. And there is still that part of him that wants Kimmy to suffer more. The only thing left is Hyun, the Keith Stone grandfather thing won’t be it.
JL23
2024-08-31 20:18:13 +0000 UTC![개성인쥬스[pingkypen]](https://samuzai.com/istorage/106895.jpg)
