SHHG! Episode 8: Physics Puzzle
Added 2023-06-30 14:01:01 +0000 UTCThe Hunger Games chapters 14-18 (concluding act II)
We've got Mario on the mind! Specifically Mario RPG, the game with the fakest sounding name ever that we have a lot of fond memories of. This leads us through a whole tangent about retro gaming setups, but we can't talk about that for long--we've got a lot of book to talk about! This week we finish out the second act of the novel, which sees Katniss getting her first kill(s), teaming up with Rue, and clearing an enemy camp Far Cry style. There's a lot that works (action! thrills! character dynamics!) and a lot that works less (mid-game patch notes! Peeta!) but one thing is for sure: we want Katniss to win now no duos.
P.S Apologies for my sort of crunchy audio this week! My perfect angelic cat who has never done anything wrong sat on my audio interface the other day and I only noticed how out of place the settings were after recording, so my mic was picking up a bunch of chair/room noises.
Comments
Yeah even as a 13 year old reading the books I was always frustrated by how little characterization the other tributes got. You'd think that would kind of be the whole pont of the book but they're just Evil (Pretty), Evil (Generic) Evil (Scary) x2, Tech Guy, Clever Girl, Cute (Dead) Girl and the two protagonists...
A Horse In A Man Costume
2024-11-05 02:52:54 +0000 UTCMistake is that Charlie and the Chocolate Factory is from the 60s and so isn’t public domain, so no one can do a retelling without the Dahl estate, who are pretty stingy about licensing.
Ryan
2023-07-07 16:25:00 +0000 UTCI came up with a Willy Wonka cyberpunk dystopia once. It's was a hunger games competition between the five children in a series of thematic candy death chamber rooms. The Oompa Loompas were a single AI hive mind. The protagonist was a hacker manipulating the factory's systems from the outside to make sure Charlie would win.
lemon cupcake
2023-07-05 17:11:09 +0000 UTCHonestly, if the book were more aware and Katniss had some really specific hangup like, "Humans aren't game to be hunted. I would never shoot a person with my bow," but then kept on actively deluding herself into thinking that it doesn't count if her arrow happens to create a landslide that takes out an enemy camp? Would be fascinating
Cutey! Candy!! Cataclysm!!!
2023-07-05 08:58:05 +0000 UTCHonestly, she should've shot down the hive with an arrow though. If her whole thing consistently was that she's so good with a bow that she can abuse the physics engine like she does with the supplies it'd be sick as hell
Cutey! Candy!! Cataclysm!!!
2023-07-05 08:47:53 +0000 UTCDropping the beehive to take out a bunch of guys is a complete video game move. Like it's been difficult to unravel which parts have been inspired by games because every second plot element has been used in battle royales, but now I'm convinced that Suzanne Collins is a gamer
Cutey! Candy!! Cataclysm!!!
2023-07-05 08:03:33 +0000 UTCYeah this is also my view on it. It's maybe something influenced by the movie IIRC leaning more into this angle but I thought the rule change was really spooky and sinister, that the Capital can just toy with their lives like this for the sake of a More Satisfying Story. It kinda reminds me of the sort of thing Lambdadelta does in Umineko
Kzinssie
2023-07-04 15:04:58 +0000 UTCI wonder if there would have been more fraught emotional drama if Good Peeta had (intentionally or not) killed Rue rather than one of the various mooks
TJ Guiney
2023-07-04 01:12:18 +0000 UTCI hope you guys continue with your evil Peeta ideas throughout the book as the twists keep coming like you did with Dumbledore. Very fun to hear.
Beetle
2023-07-04 00:32:36 +0000 UTCThis is probably Cope on my part but I think you can rationalize the confusing tone of the plot as part of the ambivalence of the Capitol itself. I don't think the audience quite wants a tragically vicious Battle Royale - they want a sentimental reality show plot. Part of the tone of reality shows is they are very, very dark in premise but rely on imposing very stock characters and plotlines that are ultimately heartwarming where the 'good guys' win. The Games seem like they're very dark but then take a bunch of cop-outs to make a simple, easier story for the same reason the series itself does - because it's popular entertainment. The Capitol audience wants the frisson of watching kids kill each other but still ultimately want to feel good about themselves at the end of the day. But obviously you can only go so far with this kind of interpretation because you still need the story to be satisfying and interesting.
Elizabeth D
2023-07-03 23:31:55 +0000 UTCFor once I’m the one who’s read these books and it’s weird to hear people talk about it and make predictions that I know the outcome of
Le Master
2023-07-03 21:36:11 +0000 UTCOther commenters have mentioned how interesting it is to hear people approach this book without the middle school shoujo goggles that made the two winners carrot an incentive to keep reading, but I have to throw my own perspective and anecdotal experience into the ring. When my friends and I read the Hunger Games as kids, Rue’s death was such a tearjerker that we were getting emotionally fatigued. As much as we might have craved violence and bloodshed as middle schoolers are wont to do, we also wanted some sort of assurance that there was something Nice awaiting us, and the idea of both characters surviving sufficed, especially for those of us who really loved romance and Couples Beating Impossible Odds. I think it was a tension release valve. Also, I constantly have Suzanne Collins’ history in childrens’ tv screenwriting in my brain. There’s a kind of formulaic structure to a lot of her writing that is VERY evocative of kids’ shows
Air Stratus
2023-07-03 20:02:27 +0000 UTCI'd read Golden Ticket ngllll
RosiYY
2023-07-03 19:54:49 +0000 UTCBattle Royale is soooo awesome
The Shrieking Shack
2023-07-03 15:37:11 +0000 UTCI think that's a valid read! I will say that while I wish the story had mined the inherent conflict between two tributes teaming up more, I do think there would still be room for the moments of genuine connection in there--hell, those moments would hit harder, I think, if they were happening despite the friction both characters were being forced to share
The Shrieking Shack
2023-07-03 15:36:59 +0000 UTCAwesome! I'm looking forward to seeing where stuff actually goes
The Shrieking Shack
2023-07-03 15:33:18 +0000 UTCbig thanks for mentioning the PS5 vertical leaking issue, I've just flipped my console!
Marla White
2023-07-03 01:24:27 +0000 UTCSuper Mario RPG is for sure my favorite game of all time and I couldn't be happier for the remake. I assume they'll do a similar thing to the FF6 retranslation where they have a totally new script but heavily reference the original to keep the "voice" and most of the iconic jokes. My big complaint with the visuals is that they removed Geno's Mickey Mouse ears thing where his "hair" is always covering specifically the eye that is furthest from the camera. He often has both eyes visible in the trailer and that always just makes his design look really dorky to me. Geno is cool! Let him look cool!!!
Kzinssie
2023-07-02 14:44:35 +0000 UTCListening to this episode made me crave an original Battle Royale reread. Everyone is so messy and twisted and getting their hands dirty in that book, which really succeeds at switching POV to get the most interesting plot out of all sides of the battlefield. Could be interesting to hear you guys compare it!
Julie Lerche
2023-07-02 00:29:10 +0000 UTCMy experience reading this for the first time was really colored by the fact that I knew Rue died, and I only knew that because of some book fans freaking out and acting extremely racist when Rue was a black girl in the movie, because I guess they'd imagined a white girl with a nice tan from working outside when her complexity was described as "brown". So literally the only things I knew going in were a) battle royale, b) two possible love interests, c) little girl called Rue is killed in a way that gave fans feelings, d) Rue is black and fans who can't read got very mad about that fact. I wonder how I would have read those if I hadn't expected her to die.
Eric
2023-07-02 00:27:16 +0000 UTCI get why you guys would have wanted either Rue to be two-faced or maybe Katniss to have become paranoid and try to take her out first because of it for the sake of drama, but I don't think the latter option would have made sense for Katniss because of the way she's conflated Rue and Prim in her mind. I also thought that the way it was actually handled had some virtues. I liked the fact that in spite of fact that as Xeecee was saying, they're in a battle royale where "the dark tragedy of it all is that this evil government is making children fight each other for their entertainment" they're still both naive enough—maybe even innocent enough—to make that genuine human connection. I also just liked the idea that in a situation that was intended to create "strife and drama" they were somehow able to find in some small way trust and community. I found it significant also when Rue's district gifted Katniss after Rue died; I cant help but think that that was about more than just the way she honored Rue in death but also how she was treating her when she was alive. I do confess to being sentimental though so maybe this is just my sentimentality jumping out.
Eric
2023-07-02 00:16:05 +0000 UTCRight? The Peeta is evil theory that Xeecee describes is… interesting to compare to the intent of the book. The rule change really just makes sense in terms of what hunger games viewers want if you, the reader, are also invested in the Katniss/Peeta angle, since we know in-universe they’re being advertised as a tragic couple by the Capitol
Liam Philipson
2023-07-01 21:08:33 +0000 UTCI think you might like where the rule change is going in terms of the whole “is Katniss aware of how badly she’s getting played by the Capitol” thread you liked earlier in the book! The place it goes is so iconic both to the franchise and to this area of pop culture in general I’m kinda shocked you haven’t heard about it through osmosis yet. You may also think it’s very silly. Unequivocal support for the tracker jackers here though, that part was gnarly, I was dumbfounded as a kid reading it
Liam Philipson
2023-07-01 20:58:16 +0000 UTCI didn't even consider what reading THG would be like from the perspective of people who aren't more focused on the romance than anything else. I guess I was pretty single-minded when I read it in 10th grade.
Chance
2023-07-01 18:49:08 +0000 UTCyou got me with that 3rd segment! i thought for sure it was the 2nd one, because i was aware of 3 other arthurian retelling ya series about a girl drawing the sword and thought 'no way there's more'
Cromalin
2023-07-01 16:13:22 +0000 UTCYeah someone else said this is a "yelling at the screen" moment, but this is also one of those moments where I'm listening and kind of going "hee hee, hoo hoo!" because a handful of the problems you're having are either addressed in this book by the end, or fixed in the next book, and I'm excited to see what you think! (Definitely not all the problems, mind you, but there are some plot beats and characters at the end of this book and throughout the next one that I'm very excited for you to see.)
Hannah
2023-07-01 14:15:00 +0000 UTCit’s so much fun to hear you guys talk about this book, because i haven’t read it/seen the movie either BUT somehow had just a little more knowledge of it by way of cultural osmosis - so sometimes you’ll be surprised by something i knew about but i end up also surprised by how that actually happened or was initially presented, haha. rue and the rule change are the big ones where i Knew they happened but am here going "oh wait it was like that? huh?" because of how i heard those elements talked about. anyway i am looking forward to more.. happy hunger games…….
superboo
2023-07-01 13:22:41 +0000 UTCi’m really having a “yelling at the screen” moment with this one. i really can’t wait for you to finish the book!
dianthus
2023-07-01 05:38:01 +0000 UTCOoh, that sounds cool.
The Shrieking Shack
2023-07-01 01:29:14 +0000 UTCI've heard so much Controversy about the prequel that I'm dying to check it out at some point. I love getting inside the heads of villains/just plain bad characters, so from that perspective the vague idea of the premise I have is soooo juicy.
The Shrieking Shack
2023-07-01 01:27:50 +0000 UTCI'm very interested in how the film handles this stuff (both plot structure and character representation), I can't wait to dig into the movie in general!
The Shrieking Shack
2023-07-01 01:26:28 +0000 UTCYeah! For what it's worth, it's at least been a ton of fun from that perspective--I'm just consistently surprised at what I'm reading vs. the import criticism around it gives it. All of my gripes aside I am still here for Katniss going Hatchet mode and fighting the bad guys!
The Shrieking Shack
2023-07-01 01:24:22 +0000 UTCOoh yes, the next Games is such an interesting contrast to this one. As a reader I also felt like the stakes were higher for me because I liked so many of the characters you actually get to know lol
Diana Gibson
2023-07-01 00:55:11 +0000 UTCI was thinking this same thing re: the movie as I was listening to their critique! I do think more needed to be done for the district 11 imagery because it ultimately felt a little too "easy" to me. I think about the wild racist reaction to Rue's casting and like... Oof, as much as her race is literally textual in the book, I think the franchise as a whole was too scared to actually be explicit about the connotations of having black characters. Back to the rule change though, it works soooo much better in the movie! So curious to see how that impacts their perception of it when they watch!
Diana Gibson
2023-07-01 00:53:11 +0000 UTCi remember reading this for the first time at age 14 and being so disappointed that the other participants of the game were so bland cardboard and stock evil, undercutting the premise that had caught my eye in the firsy place (which is definitely a factor in why i became obsessed with battle royale when i read it a few months later haha). i remember this issue getting better in the next book? it's got a better characterized ensemble cast
eliza
2023-06-30 23:29:16 +0000 UTCI feel like lots of your thoughts about THG are much darker than is actually present (even in a book about kids being forced to fight to the death for entertainment). There is definitely something about how the narratives of everyone else is feeding into Katniss's narrative or there to service her narrative. I also feel that when they first came out, even having a female lead in this role in a YA book was quite a big deal.
Joshua Smith
2023-06-30 22:48:14 +0000 UTCagreed ! I love the rewrites that Xeecee n Liz pitch here (Evil Peeta is up there w Evil Dumbledore as fun spinoff ideas), they're very juicy. however, the reality of THG is that it's wayy more Maximum Ride / Twilight ya pulp pop lit (by which I mean, per the rules of their stories universe the heroes will ultimately be Morally Right and Fall in Love and Kill the Cartoonishly Evil Villain). the hype around THG at the time of publication might paint it as something as politically bleak and morally mixed as the japanese Battle Royale novel but. ultimately The Hunger Games never gets that deep ! it's way more blockbuster book spectacle than political manifesto.
Mars R
2023-06-30 21:14:10 +0000 UTCIN MY ONION...no spoilers but I *will* say I think the movie improves on the Rule Change Twist by at least giving some extra context/framing we don't get in the book. overall the film medium serves the story tremendously imo. also I feel like just being able to Show district 11 across the films does a lot of heavy lifting wrt depicting race and racism (though unfortunately I think they stop short of verbalizing it)
sam
2023-06-30 17:55:44 +0000 UTCI agree! I think her not second-guessing Peeta goes with that line of thinking too-- they want to capitalize on the "Team Edward vs Team Jacob" phenomenon early on (since Gaile and Peeta are literally the only 2 dudes she's interacted with so far)
Nat Harris
2023-06-30 16:15:40 +0000 UTCI love that you guys are like extrapolating way more on the pulpy premise and expecting a super pulpy book when it’s a commercially successful ya that has a pulpy premise but is still ya. Sorry katniss was never going to think about killing the little girl tribute who reminds her of her sister who’s place she took in the killing children games which is why they don’t put her in the more interesting moral conundrums that should come with these games but ah well
Marisa
2023-06-30 15:42:29 +0000 UTCI hope you guys read the prequel (which I didn’t actually finish but that’s just because I’m bad about reading the half that I read was interesting) it goes a lot more into the governments ideology behind the hunger games and turning it more from battle royale kids fighting in one arena to like the giant spectacle celebrity aspect
Marisa
2023-06-30 15:37:09 +0000 UTCI don't understand why Peeta would need a Cop-Out for that first kill with the careers? This is still the "Only one can survive"-Competition.
ZiggyWSB .
2023-06-30 14:50:16 +0000 UTC"It's about a little man" I don't know why but deadass thought you were gonna say Grimace
Nat Harris
2023-06-30 14:24:20 +0000 UTC
