Attack on Titan Season 4 Episode 5 Early Access

Just for the record, I do think the story went in this direction naturally, and I'm glad it did. I personally think eren is in the running for the best written protagonist in all of anime/manga, I just also don't think that means i always have to agree with the way he does things. Didnt mean for this discussion to drag out or get nasty or anything, just giving my two cents. And I think we can agree that either way its a phenomenal and nuanced story, without getting bogged down in details/opinions of characters' morality in an anime that intentionally blurs the lines of black and white so well.

Yes reiner had no choice bc he would die if he returned empty handed, eren could pre-emptively strike in any way he chooses. He is fully conscious that hes about to obliterate an area where primarily civilians will be the casualties. I agree with you that both acts are equally bad and eren has no choice but to do SOMETHING, all I'm saying is that he has more agency than reiner did and regardless what he is doing is pretty terrifying to witness the protagonist carrying out. My point is just that they're both awful acts that were unfortunately a product of circumstance for both reiner and eren, but I'm just saying *in presentation* its scarier to see the main character consciously choose to do it, unlike with reiner where we saw it first without knowing who he was and learned to sympathize later.

Eren is striking back after having had 250k+ innocent lives taken from his own country & war still ongoing between him and Marley. Reiner was brainwashed... then continued his mission after learning it was lies. Both of them had no choice due to circumstances. Reiner is just as bad as Eren.

Chrissy

I'm well aware of the complexity of the situation, and that he feels he doesnt have much of a choice, but whether you call it heinous or not is just arguing semantics. Fact is, he just destroyed a residential building of other eldians, crushed willy tybur in his palm, created a hail of rubble into a crowd, and presumably tried to kill reiner and falco as well. While he may be justified in taking the initiative it's still horrifying. Reiner and gang were ignorant brainwashed kids; eren is a fully aware adult committing a massacre in a civilian residential area- that's the only point I'm trying to make

"Heinous" - I don't know if I would call it that. What he's doing right here is taking the initiative by striking first to defend his own country after having war declared on him AGAIN but by the whole world this time.

Chrissy

Finally we see what this new eren is capable of, and how terrifying he can be. Maybe its just for me, but I feel theres a different kind of horror when its the main character committing heinous acts, and the fact that unlike reiner, he isn't healing from a terrible past, but instead this is who he has progressed to be. Cant wait for the rest of this adaptation and your reactions

Yeah but there are real life parallels to draw on. They also cared about blood purity while forcing women to bear "ar*an" children, reeducating children that looked close enough to their standard, etc. But "public" mixed race couples were banned or shunned. That's what I mean, that they would've kept track of who was and who wasn't Eldian.

LegionaresCZ

You can see Eren's eyes light up when Willy says he wants to live because he was born into this world, but then smiles when Willy declares war - for a moment he had a doubt about his plan. Eren seems like someone who desperately wants an reason to stop the bloodshed, but genuinely believes it's their only way forward (and he might be right, Willy's speech was targeting specifically Eren but Paradis would probably end up in ruins anyway, not to say of the fact that Eren was also born into this world and yearns for freedom himself). Willy's speech was interesting, trying to paint Eren as the big bad, makes me think that even if they succeeded the moment the war is over everyone will go back to hating Eldians. But just like Eren, Willy doesn't see any other way out of it. He needed to put on a display to the rest of the world, not to Eldians or Paradis. What good would taking Paradis be if Marley is destroyed by other nations in the process? Eren was the obvious choice - although they don't know it, Historia refused to become the successor, which was the only other way out of this situation - really adds weight to her "I'm a bad girl" line. Yeah it wasn't just teenage angst, she literally is dooming the world as I imagine the Tyburs would be able to at least negotiate with a king fritz descendant

LegionaresCZ

Tomas, it was heavily implied they committed ethnic cleansing not just by killing but also racemixing and forcing others to bear eldian children. But as I said in my own comment, a lot of that seems like a massive stretch of the truth.

Chrissy

He was trying to echo the thoughts of King Fritz and all the non-Eldians listening. Willy is a politician lol But the speech is pretty basic in what it wants to achieve - unite against a single larger enemy. He paints King Fritz and the islanders as peaceful, and likewise the Tyburs and the intermitent zone Eldians as peaceful. Basically the "few bad apples" argument but applied to Eren and crew. Lot of the statistics are probably made up, wherever unintentionally by the author or intentionally by the characters. But since the Eldian Empire are heavily implied to be fashes, it's not unthinkable that they would themselves regulate in-breeding and mixed race relationships, a tradition which Marley would gladly continue but turn against them, as demonstrated with Reiner's dad.

LegionaresCZ

Grr, Patreon keeps auto-removing my comment because of filters or something so I'm gonna put some spaces on words i THINK could be the reason. Annoying.. "Rant" and thoughts incoming: Willy said that Eldia had k i l l e d so many people that it amounts to k i l l i n g their current worlds population three times over? Sounds very stretched to me. Gonna quote Kruger (The Owl) from Season 3 Part 2: "Seventeen centuries of e t h n i c c l e a n s i n g? If that were true, there wouldn't be a strand of Marleyan hair (or any other country/r a c e) left on this planet". Just look at how many r a c e s and leaders of countries are still left, it's obviously stretched truth if you ask me. Unfortunate situation, but I guess you reap what you sow. Sadly innocent people will be involved but Tybur & the whole world started this w a r on Paradis; first by having just Marley attack them because they wanted resources and to steal the founding titan for their own use to keep dominating & c o n q u e r the world using fear & the strength of titans and now trying again with the help of the world because they couldn't do it alone... W a r is terrible, but the way I see it Eren is just defending his country and family from the people who started (and are the ones who want to continue) the w a r. Really horrible they were put into this situation in the first place though. I will keep moving forward... until all my enemies are destroyed. And until the next reaction! :D Loved it as usual.

Chrissy

I really can't decide what to think about the whole speech. Someone commented somewhere that "Willy Tybur's speech would be better than Erwin's in 'Perfect Game' " but I can't agree just yet. At least not for the speech itself :D As in, Willy is basically talking about "freeing" the humanity of Eldians, his own people. That's where his declaration would eventually lead imo. Sure he supposedly didn't have much connection to “regular” Eldians during his life, I still wonder if he was prepared to also sacrifice his family and eventually himself, too. He sure didn't sound like it when he was giving the speech and more than anything was trying to unite everyone against the Eldians (of Paradis ? ). Maybe he doesn't know that only a Fritz can fully control the Founding titan, or he deliberately left it untold in order to make Eren sound like even greater a threat. If he didn't know, he might even have planned on taking the Founding titan for himself (or his family). Not to rule, but to “defuse the situation”. Isayama also doesn't really answer the question : "What is considered 'an Eldian' at this point?" It might have been left untold just to make storytelling easier, but logically, especially given how many people Eldians have killed, a great percentage of the current inhabitants of the world should possess a "certain amount of Eldian blood". How large percentage would be required for a child to inherit a titan at birth? It's understandable if they never touch this, tbh, but I’m just wondering if it would even be possible to “end” the curse of Ymir by killing all “Eldians”.

Marley: We are declaring war on paradis island! Eren: So, about that.

Matthew B

Joseph you have the best AOT reactions! There was so much tension in this episode. I cant wait for next week!

HL

I've never been happier to be an anime watcher rather than a manga reader, the sheer difference it makes to have the music and voice acting is incredible, what a great episode

Ooooooh boy I remember reading this years ago and imagining what it would be like animated it’s almost surreal to see it. Glad I get to enjoy it here as always thanks!

Vallahex

Your reaction at the end was priceless, that’s why I enjoy your content so much! Can’t wait for next week!

Felipe Aranda

That cliffhanger hurts. And I'm a manga reader