S2E8.5: Hedwig and the Angry Inch
Added 2022-09-21 22:49:56 +0000 UTCLets not beat around the bush here: Alice did not participate in bringing a movie that means a lot to her, instead opting to show us Winter Kills. After an internal disciplinary process, she performed malicious compliance and dropped a transgender emotional nuke on us.
So, we watched Hedwig. And we had a lot of thoughts.
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Kill James Bond is hosted by Alice Caldwell-Kelly, Abigail Thorn, and Devon. You can find us at https://killjamesbond.com and https://twitter.com/killjamesbond
Comments
"Try to choose a name that doesn't start with 'a'". Oh, that's the first time I got called out for the name I chose.
MeatPopsicle
2025-03-12 17:00:31 +0000 UTCThis is one of my favorite movies/stage shows! I signed up for your Patreon just for this episode! I have my Hedwig tattoo I got when I was 22. (It’s the artwork from “Origin of Love.”) I love this movie so much!!
Maria Layton
2024-12-20 14:43:25 +0000 UTC1h15m, i don't know if any of you have read Alyson Greaves' "The Sisters of Dorley", but "you conceive of your male half as a separate persona and it feels as if you cut off and kill that person, but later on you come back to that part of yourself and have to reconcile with it" yoooooo try reading those novels!!! Because this is such a Christine Hale vibe!!! If this film hit you in the emotions and you liked that, Dorley might be right up your street.
MagneticRose
2024-12-16 18:58:32 +0000 UTCI'm doing a relisten to the podcast from the beginning and I skipped this and the Q&As the first time around because I didn't think I'd get the same effect if I wasn't fully invested in the para-social relationship. I think that was a good decision.
Damien Tonkin
2024-10-26 12:45:33 +0000 UTCI love that you're a boring posh lady, Abi. As someone who also grew up British, midleclass and millennial, it's the direction I want to head with my transition. I realised that I'd been avoiding any explicitly queer media before I came out because so much of it is like this. And as heartbreakingly romantic as the Beautiful but Tragic Ruin is, it's no way to live. Seeing someone who can play the BTR but doesn't have to live it when the performance is over, gives me so much joy and hope for myself. I joined the patron for this episode and I'm glad I did. Hearing you three talk about this is genuinely so healing 💖
Evie K
2024-09-16 03:09:10 +0000 UTCRe: Nova's bit about Lillith Fair, that's incorrect, Lillith fair was the Sarah McLachlan thing in the 90s about getting women onto stages across the country, the reference that both Nova and Abby were reaching for is Michfest, or the "Michigan Womyn's Music Festival," the terf-ran, anti-trans music festival that lasted up until (get ready for a gut punch) 9 years ago, in 2015. (The last show was still, indeed, trans-exclusionary. The term they used for the policy is "Womyn-born-womyn," which I find a bit funny in a sort of MacDuff way, like well then cis women born from c-section shouldnt be allowed in). This was in the wake of the whole Sandy Stone & Olivia Records debacle where terfs basically brought down the femme music collective Olivia Records over their employment of Sandy Stone, trans woman and sick-ass writer.
Candy H
2024-08-31 22:59:11 +0000 UTCah yes, the PT field
Candy H
2024-08-31 22:49:16 +0000 UTCAs a former child
Kurtis
2024-06-20 07:11:03 +0000 UTCFun fact: Moist von Lipwig from discworld was originally going to be named Headwig after this Headwig in particular. His editor told him not to cuz the first harry potter book had just gotten real popular and he didn't want to get in trouble with the lawyers about the owl of the same name. JK Rowling passive transphobia field even back then
Zagreuses-toast
2024-06-15 05:41:26 +0000 UTCI joined the Patreon specifically to listen to this episode, and I was not disappointed. A beautiful analysis of a beautiful movie. Love and thanks to November, Abi, and Devon.
Camille Caroline
2024-06-12 14:17:20 +0000 UTCI’m Back!
Kurtis
2024-04-26 17:24:29 +0000 UTCas someone whose mother recently told him some horrible shit re: coming out as trans ('youre forcing me to see you suffer', 'i wont pick up the pieces when the world breaks you', youve heard it before), the last little bit of the pod and the 'welcome to the party' energy was deeeeply comforting and needed. yeah being trans fucking rocks and I wouldn't trade it for the world
Newt Farías
2024-03-26 16:59:53 +0000 UTCNot America! That's where I keep all my stuff!
ComicTF
2024-02-15 02:54:33 +0000 UTCI feel the same way I do when I hang out with beloved friends after getting heart-breaking news. "The world is full of grief, but it's also full of joy like this."
Rebeccaej
2024-01-17 01:03:06 +0000 UTCMe, sitting down to listen to a years-old bonus episode: "Hope this doesn't awaken anything in me."
Terra
2024-01-16 07:37:16 +0000 UTC"Renata Options" is played by Mike Potter, who did Hedwig's hair and makeup for both the stage and movie.
DFA
2023-11-06 02:32:26 +0000 UTCI, as a Jewish transmasc person who loves playing with traditionally feminine fashion, was cracked by watching a bootleg of the stage show at 1am in high school alone in my room and seeing Yitzhak as a (also Jewish) transmasc person who could still embrace aspects of femininity without compromising their identity. I saw Hedwig as being so heavily influenced by their past and biases and how others viewed them that their identity was not ever really their own. Not saying other interpretations are wrong, just saying this is what I experienced when I was a 16 yo egg.
Ezra
2023-11-03 16:51:56 +0000 UTCI’m so glad Abi’s finally acknowledged me personally as her friend on the podcast
Salsa Roja
2023-08-04 13:12:29 +0000 UTCIronically Abi's point towards the end about rejecting the idea that being trans is a "curse" and being happy despite it and how she's actually happy BECAUSE she transitioned was a "She just like me for reals" moment of my own
Jamie
2023-06-10 01:19:25 +0000 UTCHeeeey, i choose THREE names that start with "A" ..
Anya Topp
2023-05-06 13:25:05 +0000 UTCYour wisdom and humor and analysis makes everything better. Thank you, all three of you, as always. I've been dealing with an array of destabilizing health issues over the last few years and this podcast as well as WTYP and PhilosophyTube have made soooooo many hours of that struggle a little easier. Much appreciated.
Knights Who Say Sledge
2023-04-21 01:58:41 +0000 UTC(I wish I were just like them for real.)
Greg Dean
2023-04-18 23:08:36 +0000 UTCCircling back to thank all of you for this episode again, I re-listen on a regular basis as this is my favorite movie of all time
Schizmo
2023-04-10 05:48:08 +0000 UTC1) American, 2) Blonde, 3) Emma has said something similar to the speech Abigail gave about Trans is better except it was with mutants, 4) Non-Binary comic writer Grant Morrison wrote Emma to explore his own feelings concerning Gender in the early 00s. Morrison’s original Wish was to do Colossus / Piotr but this Russian character recently died in the comics as part of a noble sacrifice. So Grant instead explored these themes with Emma where she gain a secondary mutation where she literally becomes a near perfect diamond form.
Matthew Theisen
2023-01-12 01:12:40 +0000 UTCAll the X-Men stuff at the end made me think a fabulous thought. Is Abigail becoming Emma Frost?
Matthew Theisen
2023-01-12 01:07:46 +0000 UTCThe first time I listened to this episode I went in thinking I was Cis, and came out knowing I was non binary
Joshua Firmin
2023-01-02 20:21:17 +0000 UTCBoth the movie and this episode have been very gender affirming to me. I just haven't really figured out what gender that is... I've worked on a german/dutch production of this show and it has always held a strange place in my mind. Thank you for covering it, that gave me a good reason to actually watch the movie.
Fon Sanders
2022-12-17 00:25:32 +0000 UTCIt took me a while to get around to rewatching this and listening to it, so I'm probably the only person that's gonna ever see this comment, but hey ho. This episode got me thinking a lot. I've been trying to bring all my thoughts on Mitchell's comments about being a drag queen together kind of unsuccessfully. I think him being nonbinary (Stephen Trask, who wrote the music and lyrics and played the fem emo guy in the band, also came out as nonbinary last year too) is worth considering here - at the time Hedwig was being made, he identified as a cis male drag queen. I do wonder if his experiences exploring his gender identity through drag could be relevant (obviously a bit of an assumption without hearing it from him, but oh well). Hedwig didn't want to be a woman in Germany, and even after moving (through the first two verses of Wig in a Box) she still views it as a disguise. late on in the song she comes to appreciate femininity with the wig from the box, but no matter how she sees herself, she still HAS to be a woman, regardless of her own conception of herself. I think this could represent her finding and realising her female half, but instead of becoming whole, she had to switch from inhabiting her male half entirely to live within the life she's been given. The ending of the movie seems to be her female and male sides coming together and making her whole, and I think if we imagine someone realising their own 'female half' through drag, and reconciling those two as a nonbinary person (or at least, someone 'in the divide between man and woman') the story makes sense. Hedwig could be seen as the drag queen Mitchell was - only she couldn't clock out and take the makeup off and live as a man, so that half had to become a whole person, ever missing a part of herself she didn't realise she had lost. It would be interesting to talk to Mitchell now, and see if he thought being nonbinary has anything to do with his conception of Hedwig, even if he didn't realise it at the time.
Ari
2022-10-23 21:22:02 +0000 UTCincredibly grateful for this episode. thank you all for your thoughts and honesty, this was really special
kelsey
2022-10-08 12:02:05 +0000 UTCAfter first listening to the episode, I immediately pulled up the soundtrack and listened to it in one go. And then twice more back to back. And then had a mental breakdown on the bus. I've been out for just under two years now, and apparently I still have a fair bit of shit to workk through, cuz Hedwig floored me completely and utterly. Now I listened to the ep again, and actually watched the film. I don't think I'd have been able to get as much of it as I did without your commentary. Thanks for that and thanks for making me see another formative piece of queer media! It was really moving to listen to y'all talk about it.
ACertainSnips
2022-10-06 17:23:10 +0000 UTCThis was a really powerful episode to listen to. Thank you. Planning to share it with my daughter (once I've found a way to hack the feed and grab an MP3…) as I hope she'll find stuff in it that resonates, and particularly what you had to say about being trans as a source of joy and power. God though the stuff about people thinking all trans people have been sexually abused as children - it hadn't *occurred* to me that anyone might be looking at me and my wife that way after our daughter came out. Well, forewarned is forearmed, I guess…
Jae H
2022-09-30 12:19:28 +0000 UTCwhere can i find that book?? couldn't find it from a google search but it sounds very interesting
Laura
2022-09-27 00:08:41 +0000 UTCthe idea that this movie isn't trans is pretty ridiculous cause EVEN IF Hedwig was a guy who'd been forced to get bottom surgery and live as a woman, hello??? someone of one gender??? being forced to live as the other gender??? in a body that doesn't match their self perception???? idk still sounds pretty trans
Laura
2022-09-27 00:03:34 +0000 UTCive gotta say that the only time in the movie where i said "hey they put me in the movie!" was the song angry inch, cause as a trans man, the 'active, provocative pride' about having a 1 inch dick and the rage at a society that sees you as disgusting for it really resonated with me and i enjoyed it a lot (not my name on the account btw)
Laura
2022-09-26 23:58:01 +0000 UTCI think there are cis het people who can do their best to understand what trans folks experience, but being trans is not just a feeling of being an outcast freak. There is joy and rebellion and every breath we take right now is an act of self creation in a way that cis people simply don't experience. It isn't a moral failing, it's just a different experience which is hard to communicate except to the other people who have felt it.
re rahrich
2022-09-26 23:07:55 +0000 UTCYour reply made me smile. From one trans who had a similar experience to another, I'm very very glad to hear you're happy. I'm fuckin thrilled that I am trans and it's lovely seeing other folks express that.
re rahrich
2022-09-26 22:55:33 +0000 UTCI think y'all underestimate the ability of cis het people to feel like outcast freaks and thus empathize with and enjoy trans narratives.
Ben Schwabe
2022-09-26 18:18:56 +0000 UTC1. It was so lovely to hear all of you be so earnest. Earnesty and emotional honesty absent the shielding distance of sarcasm is really lovely and underrated. 2. Crystal Nocked as a drag name is peak ashkenazi humor and is so emblematic of the trauma inherent in the Jewish experience. 3. Please do more musicals and emotionally earnest episodes if it's not too taxing to you. 4. The "just like James Bond" bit almost broke me, such a good long-lead-up punchline.
Gabe
2022-09-25 01:42:52 +0000 UTCAs a Jewish person, I felt like it was pretty clear hedwig is kind of monster, and they say that, but I get how you'd feel that way.
Gabe
2022-09-25 01:34:42 +0000 UTCNailed it babes.
Mungo
2022-09-24 05:40:08 +0000 UTCHey, Patreon user Arazmis, thanks for making me look up "agender" for the first time in 8 years and have some things click into place
-Kris-
2022-09-23 20:03:42 +0000 UTCMuch love but I absolutely regret listening to this episode. The movie is very well made, it's a very good movie although problematic for all the reasons mentioned and several more you skipped which is why the episode made me feel so unseen in the eyes of people whom on most subjects I have no doubt to call allies. Maybe this week had a bit too much bonus hatred towards some of us and seeing how you thoroughly went through a list of problematic points in the movie, then tease a chat about Yitzhak only to completely skip the disparate power dynamic between Yitzhak a Jewish person and her abusive German quasi-owner who controls her coming and going via her papers! The episode made me feel invisible, used and served as another reminder that solidarity usually stops just before anti-Semitism.
Lew
2022-09-23 07:57:54 +0000 UTCHey, I'm a big fan of the show despite being almost 40, straight-ish, and cis (I know, I'm happy to be relegated to the past) and this was far and away my favorite episode. I don't really have any gender stuff going on but as someone who has struggled to live an authentic life in other ways, I very strongly identified with the talk about having to defeat and destroy parts of yourself only to have them re-emerge in potentially healthier ways, as well as the idea of living in your true identity joyfully and stridently. Anyway, thank you so much for this one, today was tough and y'all helped a lot.
Jack Gunn
2022-09-23 03:58:14 +0000 UTCI watched this movie last year in the midst of a deep dark depression. I cried my fucking eyes out. I listened to the soundtrack on an infinite loop. And then I couldn't find any discussions on it. Was really nervous to hear this ep, because as you very eruditely explained- highly problematic as it is- on an emotional level it's so damned incredible.
Emily Christman
2022-09-23 02:46:38 +0000 UTCThis episode ruled thanks for once again confirming that I'm trans by making me openly weep like 4 times lol
The January Storm
2022-09-23 02:28:49 +0000 UTCI listened (and am saying thanks here) because I have so many trans friends and it was nice to hear this. But much like Abi, my best friend of ever has a very joyful perspective on transness, and has always told me that if she wrote a book it would be called "The hedonist's guide to transitioning". At any rate this just affirms for me that while I am completely fine with my assigned gender, I continue to be dissatisfied with the limitations of how I am made to express it, or the supposed incompatibility of my gender with the roles I wish to play in the coming cultural shifts.
Jordan Clementi
2022-09-22 23:48:52 +0000 UTCHad been meaning to watch this for the better part of a decade. Figured I should watch it before listening to the episode of the pod. Was crying for about half of it.
Curtis Millar
2022-09-22 22:00:23 +0000 UTCI guess I need to watch this movie for reasons huh
Noblesse Oblahaj
2022-09-22 20:39:34 +0000 UTCAdding another comment to say thanks for covering this folks :) I've loved Hedwig since I saw the film as a teen, and it was instumental in cracking my non bianry egg. It's great to hear Alice and Abi talk about it from a trans femme point of view. Also, if I recall correctly, the only reason a woman was originally cast as Yitzhak was because JCM wanted a female voice to harmonise with. So strange that they accidentally made the perfect character!
Bex Lewis
2022-09-22 19:00:52 +0000 UTCthis was like a formative movie for me. I was i think 15 when it came out and i saw it in theatres and then i saw 2 different runs of the live show over the next two years afterwards including a heavy metal version which was pretty good. I took it at the time as a story about a person thrust into an identity they didnt necessarily want but was making due. The last scene where Hedwig is walking out naked symbolizing the dropping of all aspects of the "performance". The Origin of Love is still one of my favorite songs generally and i sing it at Karaoke at every opportunity (and its often available in all the Korean ones i've went to).
Chad T
2022-09-22 18:40:35 +0000 UTC"If you think you might be trans, watch this film" ah fuck I know what I'm doing this evening
Arthur Sexcrimes
2022-09-22 18:35:44 +0000 UTCMade me cry a little there at the end. Great episode
Elspeth Hunt 🏳️⚧️🏳️⚧️🏳️⚧️
2022-09-22 18:03:28 +0000 UTCLoved the episode - I think the only thing you missed is that it's also a film about rock 'n' roll, particularly glam and punk. Tommy Gnosis is a Lou Reed / David Bowie figure, stealing ideas from the underground. Hedwig's "grooming" of Tommy is reminiscent of Angie Bowie, and the film is explicit about the marginalization of women and queer people in the history of music.
Louise Duke
2022-09-22 16:50:41 +0000 UTCGreat episode, I've not seen the film but I saw the recent production in the UK up in Leeds and Manchester which I think you three would have some interesting things to say as it was a trans led production a friend of mine worked on it. I think that production transforms it in to a celebrative act of rebellion to be Hedwig and deliver bangers emotionally painful but embracing the joy too. Thanks for covering the film I need to check it out I really enjoyed hearing your readings of this.
Kallum
2022-09-22 16:07:40 +0000 UTCAnyway got a bit misty-eyed listening today, seriously one of the best episodes yet!💜
Ramona Mantegani
2022-09-22 15:43:00 +0000 UTCI ran out of my Zoloft on Monday (gotta love American healthcare) and, in preparation of this episode, watched Hedwig last night for the first time and had just an exceedingly transgender time of it. I’m gonna go ahead and not recommend watching it like that unless you want to be a very broken tran.
Ramona Mantegani
2022-09-22 15:41:58 +0000 UTCLove the episode, 1st heard Angry Inch around 2005 when Type O Negative did an awesome cover of it. Absolute banging cover too
Will
2022-09-22 15:16:05 +0000 UTCI fucking love you guys. Parasocial feelings in excess of 9000
Slazenger Kincaid
2022-09-22 14:23:10 +0000 UTCI watched a review ages ago (music movies with... panda? I cant remember) it didn't crack my egg but it give me body image issues cause om not a thin twink but a tall hairy bear
TK_Jones
2022-09-22 13:56:52 +0000 UTCThis is such a fantasic episode. Also the line "If you're cis and you've listened to this podcast for this long then no you're not" was the most gender affirming thing my little agender-with-imposter-syndrome brain has ever heard
Arazmis
2022-09-22 13:30:43 +0000 UTCFor the longest time, I thought Hedwig and the Angry Inch was a band because I had the Origin of Love in my Itunes
BanditCrab
2022-09-22 13:16:56 +0000 UTCTHE WINTER OF DIS CONTENT It was RIGHT THERE PEOPLE, jeeez
ZipDurango
2022-09-22 12:50:28 +0000 UTCNope. It's beginning with A. Can't stop, won't stop.
Alice Somethingorother
2022-09-22 10:04:31 +0000 UTCAlice’s comments about the Dresden Dolls is interesting because as someone who was out when it was released the commentary on assuming SRS will fix dysphoria, on the deliberate ignorance of family who “never saw it coming”, and on the false support of allies who will support you until you don’t fit into their boxes of what a trans woman is really resonated with me at the time. I had assumed it is disliked nowadays because of cultural change, the mainstreaming of feminist transphobia making it so people are less willing to give people the benefit of the doubt, and Amanda being unable to think before opening her mouth but I guess I can also see how it would also be hard on people in the closet.
Sadie
2022-09-22 09:37:10 +0000 UTCListening to the time you all said this was coming up, I misheard the title as the Ghibli children's movie Earwig and the Witch, which definitely was a mixup for the first few minutes of listening, but an entertaining one
Bulder
2022-09-22 07:28:33 +0000 UTCThank you, thank you, thank you.
crashp1t
2022-09-22 05:23:21 +0000 UTCI'm so glad y'all loved it. It's a favorite of mine, and has been important to me since the cast album of the musical was released when I was young. I was honestly worried when I pressed play that I'd missed something important all these years and our dear hosts were going to tear it apart, and I'd end up crying for a different reason, instead of crying for the reason I am -in joy and solidarity.
Robert Young
2022-09-22 04:33:11 +0000 UTCWinter of Dis Content
dm
2022-09-22 04:03:36 +0000 UTCMouth feel
dm
2022-09-22 04:01:19 +0000 UTC(weeping, eyes unfocused) they just like me. for real.
Dana Bernardine
2022-09-22 03:43:24 +0000 UTCAs a young trans person, its to refreshing to hear ur thoughts on the kinda myth of the singular "trans experience." My friends in highschool were very much in the Hedwig vein of being trans and queer in general; as I got older, I clashed with them more and more about this, and I no longer friends w them for a variety of reasons aside from that. But I just remember how depressed it made me, that the only other trans ppl in my life were all so MISERABLE. And they very much conformed to hegemonic ideas abt nonoffensive trans bodies (very thin, able bodied, etc) felt like I was doomed bc i wasnt thin, wasnt able bodied, so how the fuck was I gonna be happy if even they werent! Now im swag tho, and living my life happily more or less. Being trans rocks and kicks ass and I am so happy Im not cis.
linktera
2022-09-22 01:14:01 +0000 UTCI am SOOO fucking glad you covered this movie. As a cis listener (I know, you actually have those?!) I was exposed to this soundtrack pretty young and still think it's one of the best rock albums period, and when I finally got around to watching the movie in college I was FLOORED. I know only one other trans artist who I really love that has mentioned the effect this movie had on her (Laura Jane Grace), so I really appreciate hearing your perspectives and also just, incredible podcast reviews incredible movie, what an absolute delight. <3 <3 <3
Ann
2022-09-22 01:13:15 +0000 UTCOkay I don't want to ruin the pun but the Patreon announcement spoke to me like this episode is going to speak to a whole load of others.
James Taylor
2022-09-22 00:43:42 +0000 UTCI'm transmasc. The summer two years before I came out I was living alone in an apartment and somehow discovered this musical. I used to draw the Tommy Knosis makeup on my forehead and dance around the apartment in my underwear listening to the soundtrack over and over again. Did not have words for what exactly it made me feel but boy is it a part of my brain now. Probably gonna get that origin of love tattoo at some point.
Mo Haworth
2022-09-22 00:40:23 +0000 UTCAaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah
Tall Jeff
2022-09-21 23:55:48 +0000 UTCRemembering being partially out and listening to this on an endless loop at a job I hated that was owned by religious assholes.
Moira
2022-09-21 23:53:19 +0000 UTCOne of my all time favorite movies. I’ve been looking forward to this for a long time
Schizmo
2022-09-21 23:40:09 +0000 UTCThis movie was incredibly important to my sister growing up. It's one of her favorites, and now as an adult, she sits on the board of a trans youth group that helps support kids with transitioning, and their families. They do park play dates and fun activities so the kids (and siblings and parents) know there's others like them. I of course refused to watch the movie till now because I am the older sister and everything the little one liked was lame. If I may share, she helps with https://www.gendereducationnetwork.org/
Liz and Ash at UNIVERSITY OF FLORIDA!!
2022-09-21 23:04:52 +0000 UTCo7
Kill James Bond!
2022-09-21 22:56:10 +0000 UTCI hate my job. I'm closeted trans. I listen to your podcast every day while I'm there. The fact that you dropped this right now rules. Thank you so, so much.
Marilyn Fleetwood
2022-09-21 22:52:52 +0000 UTC
