Spiritual Materialism? Marxism and Mysticism w/ Breht O’Shea

I did mention in my original comment that Buddhism hasn't always been "idealist" and that, even so, the sense in which it is idealist doesn't obviously overlap with the kind of idealism that Marxists oppose. But I agree that religion and spirituality very broadly conceived can be made consistent with historical materialism and Marxism (though you would have to have a very unorthodox understanding of the life and legacy of Jesus to be a 100% committed historical materialist Christian). As for the orientalism thing, I have no idea why looking to eastern thought and cultures for interesting ideas and answers to philosophical questions would be "sympathetic orientalism"? So long as you're paying attention to the nuances and not making silly generalisations about those traditions of thought. It's seems really odd to me to suggest that we should look at the spiritual/religious ideas prevalent in our own culture over others. That strikes me as obviously wrong. And I may well agree with you about Marx and Engels' vulgar materialism, at least that I could be convinced that they (especially Engels) accidentally dip into a kind of vulgar materialism now and again. I'd have to do some rereading of the relevant texts and think more about it say definitively if you're right there. But regardless, that's not the only reason that contemporary Marxists fall into the trap of vulgar materialism. I think it's partly just because vulgar materialism is a much simpler set of doctrines than the doctrines contained within historical/dialectical materialism.

Joe

@Joe: I can't respond to your comment directly because the OP got deleted, but you make a couple of interesting points. I think we may be mistaken to single out Buddhism as uniquely suited for materialism. It is a matter of spirituality and religion in general. Buddhism, historically and contemporarily, also appears as idealist. Conversely, I deem it very possible to articulate a kind of materialist spirituality in terms of Christianity and probably any other religion as well. That does not mean they do not differ. They constitute different perspective with their own blindspots and problematic tendencies. To approach it abstractly, I think Buddhism veers to a kind of “negative idealism” while Christianism has a more “positive idealism”. Buddhism may not suffer from the superstitions that come with a more personal conception of God - to which we may be more attuned to since we grew up with them - but it begets its own problems. Notions of “ego death”, “annihilation of the self” or anti-subjectivity can have very anti-social conequences if not sublated into a materialist base of collective identity. Oneself might commit sympathetic “orientalism” by looking for an answer in the Far East instead of within the troubled but rich history of religion in front of our own doors. I say this from a very European perspective. The American position may differ. And none of what I say should discourage any already established and thriving spiritual practice. Just food for thought. And as a sidenote: I think the conflation of Marxism with “vulgar materialism” stems from the fact that Marx’ and Engel’s materialism was themselves a tad vulgar. This may be forgiven as they were more concerned with liberating themselves from reactionary shackles (and did so with swinging fists) than to reach complete nuance and refinement. So some of their conceptions might not have been fully caught up by their dialectics. Specifically, concerning questions of metaphysics, which turned out to be not so obsolete after all.

Max

I am so glad to hear that Jolene, thank you so much for your longstanding support!

Revolutionary Left Radio

"As revolutionaries we should aim to liberate spiritual and secular values from those who exploit, commodify, and use them to gain power." absolutely, my friend! well said!!! Thank you!

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<3

Revolutionary Left Radio

I have done an episode with Adnan on Sufism a while back that was also a sort of intro to Islam as well as an ep on Marxism and Islam. If you havent checked them out yet: https://revolutionaryleftradio.libsyn.com/sufism and this one: https://revolutionaryleftradio.libsyn.com/adnan-islam LMK what ya think, and if you are still looking for something more specific!

Revolutionary Left Radio

Omg pardon my user name I had no idea it was that 🤣🤣🤣

Biggus Diccus

Biggus Diccus

Hi Breht I was wondering if you could do an episode with Adnan about an intro into Islam because I've been wanting to pursue both Buddhism and Islam because of your episodes. I am very curious and I want to learn more

GoldenComrade

great to see this dream team back together!

Monty O’Blivion

Seriously that was pure gold. You have a real gift and it was nice to put a face to your voice! I used to look down on religion- it’s fantastical thinking, it’s blind faith, it’s dogmatism, it’s hierarchy, it’s divisiveness, it’s sordid history, it’s complacency etc - and yes all that can still be strongly criticized- but perhaps it is worth considering that these criticisms are the result of religion being usurped and exploited by those in power or seeking power (the same fuckers who exploit democratic/secular values). Strip away those grifters and the power structures that support them and what we are left with is simply an embodiment of spiritual yearning that seeks to sanctify and honor the values most humans share or aspire to: love, kindness, compassion, generosity, humility, and caring for others less fortunate. In this light, I can appreciate the value and beauty of religion. As revolutionaries we should aim to liberate spiritual and secular values from those who exploit, commodify, and use them to gain power.

Bill

Brett- this was beyond words impactful for me. Truly I needed this so much. I tend to sling back and forth with religion. Your perspective was nourishing.💫

Jolene Bresney

Great episode! It’s just what I needed!

louis stephens

Fancy meeting you here comrade! Hope to see you at the study session with JMP for Wretched of the Earth next weekend! Also behind the bastards, while it's not my favorite podcast, but they have some Yarvin episodes. TrueAnon, which is one of my favorites, also a few episodes on dark enlightenment/technofeudalism bros as well.

HackerBoiTellEm

Hey Rev Left! Random off topic question, but I stumbled into a bit of a rabbit hole on accelerationism and got a little curious as to its origins, its historical application, etc. I'm a little familiar with Nick Land, Curtis Yarvin field but I'm still a little lost. I was wondering if you could maybe do an episode as a general overview? Just a thought, but it would be cool. Edit: Also, as a young high schooler myself, just wanted to say thanks for all the great episodes you've had! They've been a very impactful part of my political education, and have helped inspire me to organize with my friends and fellow community members! On that note, some takes and thoughts on organizing under the context of the Trump administration would also be really cool, especially with regard to ICE raids, mutual aid, etc. but also given the support he's garnered from labor unions this last election. Anyways, take care! - DSL

Dylan S. Levi

Mashallah. Beautiful, thank you ❤️

Melissa Sanford

Apologies for my bedroom background lol, I dont have a sophisticated looking office in my small ass house XD

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