PATREON ONLY: Delphi Misinformation, Skeptics, false confessions and Stanley Cavell

Is there a podcast series about this? I could't find it 😭 I would love to hear filosophy and litterature 🥳🥳

Ditte Christiansen

I 100% agree with you, Dr. John. I've said it since we found out about the confessions: Richard Allen confessed b/c he wanted to receive forgiveness and reassurance from his family that they would still love him. They couldn't give that to him, I assume b/c they couldn't accept what he's done. So they teamed up with the defense to prevent that. I find that incredibly cruel and selfish. This man could be getting appropriate mental health help, were he allowed to confess formally and be heard, but he wasn't. And he'll be pushed to appeal, so he'll never be in a place where he can admit what he's done and begin to heal. I'm no fan of RA, of course, but I support his need to accept what he's done.

Stephanie Josey

(I'm GreenWoolWitch on YT). In my opinion, this tribalism has been the new normal since the Tea Party movement in the early aughts. It's as if histrionics are the only accepted type of conviction. If you present yourself in a normal tone of voice, with thoughtful language, you're barely heard b/c of all the yelling around you. It's infuriating, but I refuse to stoop to their level. I truly believe we're in an age of anti-enlightenment. Between the flat earthers, Qanon followers, the backlash against "elite" intellectuals and scientists, the hate toward our education system, the Christianists who act nothing like Jesus and refuse to accept the separation of church and state, and the cult of personality for the incoming president, I am truly concerned for our future. I have no problem with people who disagree with me (my dad and I debated all kinds of things for sport). I have a problem with people who refuse to listen to anyone else's views. It's so depressing.

Stephanie Josey

This is such a late comment and may never be seen, but after relistening to this episode, I wanted to address why I was a skeptic at first. I don't think it was because I demanded absolute truth and would never be satisfied. When Dr. John went online for one of the first podcasts regarding Richard Allen, I was challenged by him saying, "Why don't people believe him?" So here goes: I was horrified that an innocent-until-proven-guilty person was kept in the circumstances he was, as I understood from reporting and yes, I listened to many You-Tubers. Ultimately, I personalized it: would I be able to withstand those conditions? No, I did not think I could. The timetable of his confessions was, to my understanding at that point, linked to the drugs and constant surveillance and taunting by guards and other inmates. This may have been common treatment for convicted prisoners, but that was not the case here. I also wondered if Dr. John's work with convicted prisoners colored his perceptions, particularly during the discussion about how this was not real solitary confinement. But I listened, especially to the idea that he had to overcome a dependency on his wife and mother to confess to them directly. In addition to what Dr. John said, another thing that changed my mind was when Lawyer Lee had a former convict on her show. He did say he'd never heard of a non-convict being held in those circumstances, but went on to say that many of the things that Richard Allen was reported to have done were behaviors he'd seen as common by prisoners in solitary, from eating his feces to wrecking things to professing to Christianity, and that RA may have learned those strategies from fellow inmates. I saw that as on-the-ground reporting, frank and raw and powerful. The final piece was that I trusted the jury, their process, and listening to the case from scratch, so to speak. I was a juror on a murder trial myself, and remembered how careful and thorough we were in deliberations. So those three experiences, of Dr. John, the convict, and the jury's decision swayed me to overcome my skepticism. In particular, during the trial, the confession to his therapist rang true. I did wonder about Elvis Fields, but read up and saw he was nowhere near the crime scene. The only thing I struggled with was the timing of when the phone stopped vs. when the girls encountered Richard Allen on the bridge. I saw the video of Lauren on the bridge showing how quickly someone could cross partway, and that helped. I wish there'd been more investigation of how long the trip from the bridge to down the hill to across the creek and up the opposite hill to where they were found would take. I figure the phone was thrown onto the ground before the actual killing took place, so not everything had to fit in such a short period. In any case, this is just an explanation of why I was a skeptic.

Shadowbird2

We all will learn much more bye discussion items and issues of all kinds of differences in between truth and lies as lies are many in many varieties of nuances as the truth has only one the only one we really reaching for. But how to reach it if not listen to others while you are sceptic to what you hear, as you need information to understand that you are. What is the true colour of truth? I guess it’s when mind meeting heart in all of us and we comes together in the meeting to one another not perfect human being🤭Thank you

MagdaLena Waessman Vos

I agree I do believe he is guilty...I think they did prove that ..I'm not sure about being in prison before he was convicted ...but that is a whole different issue...has nothing to do with he committed the crime...I listened to people who was clearly pro RA and some that were pro prosecution..and they you and one other that just told the facts they heard...and still I couldn't get over the confessions and his description of what he was wearing on the bridge that day. Thanks for all y'all do ..great team you two are ..

Holly Wilson

I signed up for Patreon just for this episode and love how much content I now have access to. What a great wife/husband combo with their unique yet complimentary skill sets.

Julie

I was one of the people asking about false confessions, mostly because I was curious as to how to tell the difference between one and a legitimate one. I trust the jury’s judgement. This was very informative to me! Would love to hear Dr John discuss more about why some criminals confess and some don’t.

Smooti Tooti

So good- not finished so apologies if this point is made; remember anger and fear are nearly the same. People fear the unknown (getting railroaded for offering information) and when a bunch of scared people band together, you get “righteous” anger. Not sure how to remedy besides educating myself, but this theory makes me feel better when the world depresses me. Thanks for all you guys do!!

Tessa Stephens

If the trial was streamed live the defense would not have had to use YouTubers. They could put out the wrong narrative

Kim Chapman

Wow, fascinating discussion!

Tralala

But Dr John it hurts to hear you say you can’t understand how we could not believe his 61 confessions because even I, I was a therapist for nearly 25 years before I retired and a good one I think and it didn’t know until you shared several things almost anything about forensic psychology. In other words most of us just don’t have your knowledge in this area. Our experiences and knowledge base are different than yours and that’s how I, at least believe I am taking the facts into account in being skeptical. I’m learning from you but I am not someone who doesn’t believe the facts

kim Johnson

I ended up believing he’s guilty. Partly because the defense basically ended up with hardly any evidence for the defense and partly because I believe in believing people’s expertise and I trust your expertise in your field of psychology

kim Johnson

Dr John I heard evidence probably fed to the media by the defense even before the trial so the trial started with what I believe is a healthy level of skepticism.

kim Johnson

I watched the Jonbenet doc on Netflix and kept thinking back to this recording. My husband is a SA survivor and is in the middle of a civil trial. I am disgusted by the defense attorneys tactics of turning victims into suspects. Jonbenet, Delphi, the Boston cop case, etc. There is a documentary called 'Victim/Suspect' that shows case after case of young women coming to cops about an assault and then being charged with false reporting. It was so upsetting I gave my college age daughter very specific instructions on what to do if she was ever assaulted. I appreciate you and De. John shining a light on this. I don't feel like I'm crazy and alone anymore.

Alison Clark

One other adult male reported to be in a flannel, later than the timeline. While the jacket and jeans are common, only one male fitting this description was reported. The defense by the end of trial basically conclused thar RA was bridge guy-but BG didn’t do it!! And that’s not a great defense

Cheryl George

There are rules of evidence. The defense had 3 days to convince the court that Odinists did this, but they didn’t have the evidence. You can’t just walk into a court room and accuse anyone you want without having something to back your theory and RAs defense didn’t have the proof to support their theory-it’s pretty simple. It’s also a damn good rule-particularly in this day and age when conspiracy has leaked into every high profile case of late. Also anyone pressuring RA would only need one confession to help with a conviction. How does anyone account for 60 plus(that we know of) And some confessions documented well before his supposed psychic break and one as late as February 2024-away from Westfield Prison. Lastly how do you account to RAs apparent lie to Kathy about being on the bridge that day. There were YT creators who got seats during the trial who went in convinced of his innocence. But the trial, the evidence and mostly RAs words putting himself on the bridge, wearing what he wore and the confessions left them knowing that LE got the right guy. Tthey felt they had been fooled by faulty information coming from pro-defense pretrial. That says a lot!!

Cheryl George

I made a comment earlier today about financial investment in the wrong cause / being scammed. Out of genuine curiosity, as you have paid money to be here with a contrary opinion - what is your total financial investment (crowdfunding, superchats, ten dollar holla’s) in the quest for RA to be innocent?

Amanda Lyons

Been thinking long and hard about the “double down” of many innocents. I wonder how much their financial investment contributes to the unwillingness to face logic or reason - not simply those who give “ten dolla holla’s” but those that contributed the tens of thousands of dollars to expert funding. They PAID for Perlmutter (in their minds) and she wasn’t able to be heard (in their minds - she was at the three day hearing!). I’m thinking of people who fall for financial scams - the initial transaction is rarely the totality of the loss - they increase and increase and double down and end up more invested financially - chasing the initial loss. Psychologically, I see very similar traits in scam victims with the innocent-ers; where facing they made a mistake with their money is too confronting / humiliating that they dig their heels in completely.

Amanda Lyons

Not all evidence was shown to the jury. The judge made decisions to keep certain things out. It’s fair for people to agree or disagree with those decisions. Just because people don’t believe exactly what you do doesn’t mean they didn’t listen to the evidence and are uniformed. “Seriously it’s not that hard.” And by the way, if you believe RA is guilty you should be more disappointed than anyone about any mistakes law enforcement or the judge made, because they open up the risk of a successful appeal.

MC

Why did almost everyone believe he was guilty until his attorneys came up with the odinism theory? From what I remember, at that point is when people lost their minds over it. I'll probably take some heat for this, but those attorneys with their antics remind me of two clowns.

Brown Eyed Girl

Freaking fascinating!!!! Thank you for this Dr. John and Lauren!

Michelle Dias

Pleading guilty is definitely NOT the same as 'actually' recanting because you can say your not guilty for reason of insanity too, amongst other reasoning. Even a Judge, in some states, can plead Not Guilty for a Defendant, if they decide not to Plea like Bryan Kohberger did, for example Judge Judge entered a Plea of Not Guilty on his behalf.

Basia

Kline, yes, valid point! xx

Basia

Hearing about the defense talking with some podcasters/youtubers was eye opening. I am in a discord for another true crime podcast and was astounded by how many people were vehement in his innocence. Luckily I didn't see anyone being harsh about the girls or their families. That is disgusting behavior

Sierra Kay

I thought so. I give an explanation below.

MC

I learned a lot about the legal side watching other creators like Lawyer Lee. It seemed to me that there were times he said he did it and others he said he was innocent. Of course the prosecution is only going to pick times he said he did it. It wouldn’t make sense for them to showcase the times he recanted. Apparently the prosecution has an exception to the hearsay rule when it comes to damning evidence about the defendant. But the defense cannot use the same exception for exculpatory statements from their client. So they would have had to put RA on the stand to get the other calls in. If you watch back Lawyer Lees summary of the day they first played jail calls you’ll see what I mean.

MC

I have

AdaBlue

How do you know he made false confessions, do you know RA as a friend, do you have any idea what kind of person he is or his character? Even when we think we know someone, we don't know every thing about them at all, most people have secrets they tell no one about, ever. So many people who have NO involvement whatsoever assume LE is always corrupt, they are not, most are capable, experienced investigators for the most part & if any one of them are not this can be determined by the evidence, timeline, their character, experience, abilities, skill, knowledge & past mistakes, also the cases they have been involved in helps them to navigate the investigation & ask the right questions, adjust their investigative style. Yes of course we all make mistakes, in life, our jobs sometimes, that doesn't mean it's all a mistake. There is clear case evidence here, there's a video of him for crying out loud, crossing that bridge, he knew that bridge, he had walked across that bridge time and again, he has those exact clothes in his possession; a bullet was found at the scene that ended up matching his gun when tests were performed on that gun. This among his 61 confessions to multiple people, over a long period of time, not when he was experiencing psychosis, another question is; was he ever really psychotic, was he acting? That's more likely than not. All EVIDENCE was delivered to the Jury, 12 Jury members, we are not the jury, we were not questioned to determine if we are capable of being a Juror, therefore why should I listen to your disbelief when I can see with my own eyes & ears that there is more evidence, than not pointing to him? NOT everything is unbelievable, there's healthy distrust, questioning and there's absurd distrust & misinformation or disinformation, this case has certainly brought that to the table, he RA had 5 years to create disbelief & conspiracy theories himself, no doubt, to me, he did that to his benefit because his wife was also pretended to be in total denial. I actually believe she had no doubts at all eventually,. she knows his body, his gait, his walk, his clothing, his style, but used the gaining conspiracy theories, over that 5 yr period, to his or their advantage probably hoping this would get him off, she knew it was him, she is his wife!! I've just about had enough of people who ignore total evidence for some far fetched idea they drum up in their own heads, or they have total trust in some other stranger, with ulterior motives, people want answers but I bet they did not listen, or follow the 'evidence' or the details, at all, so what gives them the unwavering right to say that it was not proven! It's ridiculous, seriously it's not that hard. Take care x

Basia

thanks for your response~ I don't know that pleading not guilty is the same as he's saying he's innocent. (Admittedly, my legal knowledge is pretty limited lol) I wonder if it's more that the defense is saying to the prosecution "we aren't going to make this easy for you by pleading guilty, so you have to prove it." And that to cancel out those confessions would require RA to testify, and that wasn't gonna happen. That is what was on my mind when I asked my initial question. I had not heard about those other calls. Interesting stuff to think about and more to be listening for as the process of sentencing and filing appeal plays out!

April

Many valid points. I think one change that could help lesson the influence of the disinformation and misinformation on YouTube etc but allow public access is to have the jury sequestered. This was not done during the Reed case.

AdaBlue

Well he did plead not guilty… but also, I thought the defense was trying to get in more phone calls directly following and preceding other calls the prosecution picked where he was saying he was innocent. But they were not allowed in due to hearsay (RA would have had to testify to get them in).

MC

The misinformation is the problem when trials such as this are shared on the internet & there's so many podcasters, or youtubers riling up the audiences for clicks, audiences, followers & money. I mean they are trying to reign in money/audiences so they will use their own 'beliefs' or their own narratives, if they are relatively 'sane', whatever that means to us/you/them, hosts, who can you really believe? It doesn't matter whether you are factual, partially factual or a total conspiracy theorist or just a bullshit artist i.e. Alex Jones & many others like him, it will only get worse, as time goes on. I'm really not sure that making these trials public is actually a good thing, infact if you look at this case or Karen Reed, let alone Brian Khoberger, that will be worse than Delphi RA, in my opinion, I would say that they shouldn't be Public even though I do enjoy watching them play out. However, I don't think it's worth it if it's going to mean some might get off charges they shouldn't. RA being tortured, what a joke, look at what he did, he's in fg jail, for crying out loud, yet they want him to be given Special Privileges? Absolute madness, I'm happy you stuck to your guns with the TRUTH, as tactfully as possible & under the circumstances. Thank you for navigating these extraordinary circumstances you are going to find yourself in from hereon going forward.

Basia

What’s the evidence the confession’s were false and his family was threatened by anyone being accused of framing him? Claims like this should include evidence.

AdaBlue

Richard Allen basically said he was on the bridge at the time of the murders, dressed exactly like bridge guy on a day nobody else was dressed like that because it was warmer. He basically said, “Hi I’m bridge guy.” There’s much more evidence on top of that but that alone made him obviously the murderer. It frankly makes me feel disheartened in the average person’s ability to think for themselves.

AdaBlue

This strategy happened with the Karen Read defense too. It baffles me. There are actual legit conspiracies and wrongful convictions to explore vs thinking the state would bother with framing him. If they wanted to frame someone, the easy mark would have been Kline. Basic logic and critical thinking is dying in our society, not just in true crime.

AdaBlue

Geek out John! The philosophy and the literature are bonuses on top of your psychological expertise and Lauren's wicked stamina and professionalism. THANK YOU!

Yvonne Bennett

Hi Rene, not sure what u meant. It’s not illegal for lawyers either the complainant or defendant to use Youtube. I equate it to companies using influencers to sell a product. I was talking generally in all heavily covered trials. If a popular lawtuber (some have hundreds of thousands of subs) covers a case and of course they will have their own personal opinion which is in itself a powerful influence over their audience. In all of the trials Ive watched both civil and criminal, the lawtuber covering the trial influenced their audiences opinion imo. Sometimes without intending to, it just happens. The audience tends to agree with the Youtuber they like and trust imo. Thats why John and Lauren were wondering if more juries will be sequestered so they aren’t influenced by YT. I’m strong willed and have found myself influenced sometimes by the lawtuber I’m watching the trial with. In this trial you couldn’t even make your own conclusion because we were hearing the trial through other peoples perceptions. The Youtuber covering it had even more influence over their audience imo for that reason. I watched Lauren because she sounded the most neutral

Shoshanah F

I think it would be beneficial for people to refrain from assuming it to be true until evidence is released. However, that is easier said than done.

RENE S

There was no DNA linking to him and the DNA they gathered was so little they weren’t able to make a profile(s) for it. There were a few things that were solid evidence. But 2 major things they had on him, aside from the confessions were: 1) earlier admissions of being at the monon trail/the bridge that day and admittedly wearing what Bridge Guy was wearing (based on the video on Libby’s phone.) 2) the unspent bullet found at the scene ended up matching his gun when tests were performed on the gun.

Lauren and John Matthias

Janey

Can anyone help me with what evidence besides his confession while in prison did the prosecution have? I should know after listening to hours of podcasts episodes but it’s all a bit of a blur. Was there any DNA evidence? Either RAs DNA or some unknown person?

Joshua Sherwood

I'm really curious bc I haven't seen any info on that. Would like to know about when/where/circumstances of that if you know. Thx

April

I was really interested in this case before an arrest was made. Then when Richard Allen was arrested and there was so much confusing information being reported that I decided to wait until the trial to make up my mind. When I heard there were no cameras and no audio I felt stressed about not having access to the information to make up my own mind. When Lauren said she would be covering it I was so relieved that there was a journalist reporting that I trusted to give me the facts. Thank you Lauren!!!

Chelsea Gervan

My heart melts at your family love and commitment ❤️ 💓 ♥️

D. Haskins

I 100% agree about the magic of Disneyland increasing once you get to see it through your child’s eyes!!

Lori Ferguson

HiddenTrueCrimeInfo@gmail.com or here on patreon

Lauren and John Matthias

Is there a way to send a private message to Lauren? I’d like to send some info-privately.

amy o'brien

It was the coworker of defense attorney Baldwin who leaked them

Lauren and John Matthias

He has?

Lauren and John Matthias

I didn't think your coverage was all that different from Lawyer Lee's coverage, Lauren! Lawyer Lee was the most impartial lawyer to cover the case, and she refused to share her opinion about the verdict. Coincidence? I don't think so! Lawyer Lee knows exactly what her audience's reaction will be if she shares her opinion, if she thought he was innocent, she'd be comfortable saying that.

Karina

The "defense attorneys" that were streaming and saying he was innocent were absolutely insane! I hope they get sued!! Ty for ur awesome coverage! Hugs

Belinda Carroll

Sorry for all the hate you both have been the target of. I just want you to know I appreciate all your real hard work on each and every case you cover. I like you sharing your thoughts and the process of going thru the evidence. If I wanted only reporting there are many news stations to choose from. I choose you two. I prefer the way you cover cases. You have a great way of balancing these aspects. The glory of podcasts, Patreon, YouTube, and other social medias is that you get to choose your content, coverage, and whether you want to dive into your thoughts and opinions or simply report. This is one way that makes you stand out from the rest. Your respect for everyone involved and their opinions is great. You welcome the respectful argument. When others demand you to be and think the way they want and use anger, bullying, harassment, and hate shows the derangement within them. Keep up the great work and thank you for not partaking in the disinformation that is taking place.

RENE S

I think I first heard it on the simpsons & yeah I felt so clever. Ahh wisdom with age.

Samantha Hawkins

I listened to Murder Sheet podcast- 3 parts- in the peoples own words Titled The Delphi Murders: The Secret Messages of the Delphi Defense's Brain Trust

Tad Auty

Yes

MC

My favorite parts of hearing these emails is Dr John correcting the grammar and spelling.

Christy Clayson

This is a very good question!

Sharla Camp Staab

Hi Lauren and John. Happy Thanksgiving!! It is crazy that the defense was leaking information or narrative direction to some youtubers. Crazy times we live in. As true crime grows in popularity, due to the cases, and the access, I can only imagine it becomes harder to maintain the integrity of a trial.

Sharla Camp Staab

Has Allen recanted his confession?

April

Wow I have come to this a couple of hours late! I adore Dr John when he “geeks out” I feel like I am back at University again learning new paradigms and perspectives! I love you quoting philosophers and intellectual thinkers !! It goes under the skin of analysis and I enjoy learning with you Dr John! It’s the reason I joined Patreon!! Thank you both so much for my learning curve 🙋‍♀️🇬🇧

Susan Kleinman

Thank you for your coverage of this trial. I found you both to be informative and in my opinion, non judgmental.

Tonella

He has public defenders

Lauren and John Matthias

I would like people’s opinions on this. First question, because I don’t know, our Richard, Alan‘s attorneys private or paid by the state? We know the attorneys will want to appeal and maybe they will convince Richard Alan that he can win an appeal. Do you think there might be a world in which he won’t appeal because he doesn’t want his family to be out more money? I hope this makes sense. Also, assuming, of course that he is indeed guilty.

PattyJ

My person feelings are that I believe we have to trust the jury. I wonder if this case became so contentious because there was a lot of confusion generated by the extreme difference in the released composite drawing, at least I was confused by that, and it did muddle my feelings about law enforcement and what they really did or didn't know. But in the end, he didn't just confess a couple of times during intense interrogation he confessed over and over to anyone who would listen.

Bobbi G

Hey Dr. John, I gather that you are a prolific reader. I'd be curious if you ever read Kerouac and compared what he wrote and did with his Navy psych files? That'd be a cool offshoot Patreon ... and thanks to both of you! I listen while I slog through my book.

Paul Maher Jr

The prosecution was behind the leak of the crime scene photos.

luna blue

What disinformation? Examples please.

luna blue

I admire the way you guys laugh at these atrocious emails. You let the hate roll off your back. I definitely don’t think either of you is a narcissist…

Stephanie J.

Or what if he'd bonded out? Likely to have never faced formal court proceedings through untimely exit from this mortal realm.

Data Lisa

Dr. John’s last statement about truth being the ultimate human tragedy brought to mind in the Bible the fall of man happened because man was told a lie by Satan and in turn brought sin into the world. That thought is pretty mind blowing to ponder upon. The truth might set you free, like Oedipus, it might lead to your demise. Good gosh….that’s a lot for 2 am 😂

Lorita Haynes

I did graduate work in rhetorical theory. I find the ideas and issues Lauren and Dr John speak about very compelling, on pointe, and interesting. I'm new to your channel and Patreon, and I'm very glad to have found this community. Thank you Lauren and Dr John for sharing your hard work!

Janet G

I’ve been watching trials for a few years and imo it’s obvious that lawyers have been using youtubers to push their narrative to form public opinion for years.

Shoshanah F

It was apparent to me that there was a calculated disinformation campaign aimed to change the narrative on this case. Some people really fell hard for it and centre their entire identity around their opinions. I can't wait to hear from those who wish to speak once the gag order is lifted.

Marlies Toews

I disagree with John that people who are skeptical don't trust the world. I think people who aren't skeptical with this case just want a neat ending and don't want to consider the state may have gotten it wrong or didn't meet its burden. That's scary to you.

MMB

I’m curious to know as well

MC

Looking forward to the upcoming podcasts on Delphi. The story of Oedipus and the search for truth being the ultimate human tragedy. Wow! I’m going to read the book by David Sheilds (sp) How we got here. Thanks.

Marianne Van Harn

This exactly. This case was anything but black and white. And to pretend that anyone who does not see it the same way as Lauren and John is crazy or bought into disinformation is narrow-minded.

MMB

What disinformation are you talking about? Just because another creator saw the case differently and believed there was reasonable doubt does not mean there was disinformation or misinformation. Only Richard Allen knows the truth of his guilt.

MMB

Is it possible he thought if he confessed he would get out of solitary?

Carolyn Moe

*prisons

Carolyn Moe

I'm a paralegal and I work for an attorney who sues jails and prisoners for civil rights violations, including being held in solitary for too long. I absolutely believe RA's rights were violated. Having watched this trial and sat through many jury trials, I believe the jury threw out many of his confessions, including those when he confessed to SAing family members. But there was a lot of other evidence besides those psychotic confessions. When the jury wanted to hear the voices, I think they matched them. It was a very difficult case. I appreciate Dr. John's insights. It's just so strange that he did this at his age, never having SA'd anyone prior. I do think he's guilty.

Carolyn Moe

To me Andrea’s excessive head jerking comes across as arrogance or contempt. Like a chip on her shoulder or unresolved grudges?

Smilos

I remember being young and thinking that question was so profound! Now I’m like, “duh! Of course it fell!” It seems like a question a narcissist would ask. And of course most teens are a bit self centered.

Laura Cruz

It reminds me of the infowars court case. And how Alex Jones has monetized this skepticism.

Laura Cruz

I really enjoyed listening to this episode.

Kay Vol

Agree…one in which knowledge & understanding have gone extinct🦕

Smilos

THIS! I honestly cannot believe they don't see the other side to this - that it was to protect him

Rena Dwelle

I absolutely LOVE listening to you guys talk! This was a fantastic episode.

Rena Dwelle

🤣🤣🤣🤣 THIS 🤣🤣🤣🤣

Rena Dwelle

Great episode! Dr. John, what leads to extreme skepticism in people? Is it a response to childhood trauma?

KD

Yes exactly and also I read somewhere that Andrea Burkart is beginning to produce and promote her skewed native claiming that BK is innocent Even if they have DNA evidence still she has begun to discredit that Just horrible and frightening she’s is attorney and supposed to uphold the laws Just makes my skin crawl

Vala Hauksdóttir

Thank you both for speaking up for sanity and truth, Lauren and Dr. John! I look forward to continuing to follow this on Spotify. Which is where I found you two originally back in early 2023 re: Kohberger/Idaho 4 murders. 💜🩵💐

Erin Aboudara

Yes, I would like to see YouTube ban these channels spreading misinformation to the public.

Erin Aboudara

Agreed. It’s going to be even worse for the Bryan Kohberger trial. These people have bought into this narrative fed by irresponsible defense attorneys and YouTubers who simply call themselves “true crime” channels without any accountability. It’s a potentially dangerous situation. I am glad that his trial venue was moved away from the small university city to Boise. They will have more resources to protect the courthouse and handle the larger media presence.

Erin Aboudara

https://youtu.be/cVm0QqPoPWQ?si=-Vj-TaeyvXHMMAvK This is disgusting So many of these channels Needs to be banned

Vala Hauksdóttir

I agree completely, Janet. I once did work in nursing (now in special education), and we healthcare professionals have had to protect patients from themselves and protect others from being harmed including ourselves from mentally ill or substance abusing patients. The lay persons out there who continue to believe that RA was being “tortured”, “abused”, “starved”, “held in solitary confinement for 13 weeks/months”, etc., have little concept of what they are talking about! Even with my special education students, as an educator, I have been trained to handle their mental health issues and self-harming behaviors, harming of others including us staff members, etc., the law as it relates to confinement of a student for their own safety as well as the safety of others in the learning environment. I don’t believe all the nonsense. These defense attorneys who are pushing this should be censured by their state bar associations if they continue to spread misinformation about this an other cases. It’s just unethical in my opinion for these attorneys to engage in this conspiracy theory nonsense and to continue to spread it in social media and on mainstream media outlets.

Erin Aboudara

😂🤣🤣🤣🤣😂🤣 I stopped what I was doing to reply because I can’t stop laughing👆😂🤣🤣

Smilos

David Shields masterfully ended his book with a beginning & if one were spiritual it’d be opening one’s mind to the soul. GB🙏

Smilos

My father always used to say...ignorance is bliss when I would discuss with him why he wouldn't want to know the truth regarding his family etc. I couldn't understand that the truth was too painful and he rather not deal with it. I was baffled by this when I was young...but now I know why denial in it's many forms exists. The truth can be very destructive to people with no emotional support.

Cindy Ginter

That makes me really ill the defense giving youtubers info to spread.

Christy R

I appreciated this conversation so much. I can’t wait to hear the new podcast episodes, I love the philosophy, it’s my favourite part of HTC

CBell

Me again. Lol “The search for the truth is the human tragedy.” Thoughts: people search for the truth thinking it will alleviate pain or grief, but finding it can do the opposite…the tragedy being you got what you wanted but it’s not what you want at the same time. Looking forward to this discussion

LLemon

The good news is, humans have great adaptability (probably one of the reasons we are the dominant species on earth). But, once you learn the truth, if you don't like it, you will still adapt to it and accept it given enough time. -And, of course, only if you allow yourself to do so. (Of course, in Oedipius's case, that's probably not something you should accept and adapt to, lol!) That's the thing, everybody's different and everyone's situation is different. And, personally, I think it is in our nature to seek the truth. To understand our world. Unfortunately, some people will just believe what others tell them rather than putting it to the test and making their own judgment call. But even then, confirmation bias will play a part. Additionally, we make that judgment call based our own life experiences. So the truth is going to be different for many. Especially for those who have had crazy life experiences, lol! There are just so many factors that play into how we see and interpret our world. Hey guys! Thanks for all you do! I've been a gem since your day 1. I remember being so thankful for you because I was finally able to learn WHY these people do what they do. So, thank you!

Christine Balog

I was so glad you put out the VIDEO before the trial I was skeptical of the evidence I went in wanting to hear the evidence and I prayed then that the jury would get it right Thank you for all you do

Deborrah Dutra

It was on July 15. If you search MS Defense secret braintrust you will find it. It’s 3 part series.

Rebecca Hayes

Thank you Lauren and Dr. John. It was so good to hear your voices and your thoughtful analysis. I use to listen to those defense lawyers you are referring to and realized exactly what you described, they are looking for clicks. Unfortunately there are many people who need chaos and live in fear, anger and doubt who are susceptible to it all. Please remain a calming and logical voice in our chaotic world. Thank you again!

JG

I’m here for the “soulless son of a bitch” merch. 🙌🏻

Rebecca Hayes

I absolutely love what you bring to your gems both as a team & individually. The facts & insight is spot on! And all of those negative messages are from those not right with themselves. Dr John couldn’t have made it any clearer! THANK YOU BOTH! 🤍🍃

Michelle

No one can see things from another person's point of view. I don't think people should be silenced by anger, but I often am unfortunately.

Cindy Ginter

I recently accompanied my son’s 5th grade class on their field trip to a nature preserve, which used to be a rock quarry. The Park Ranger challenged the kids to find what was man made and what was natural. The Ranger offered the kids a clue to help their search that I believe applies to the spirit of this discussion: Mother Nature never makes a straight line.

Aaron Williams

With anger being a secondary emotion, and understanding how these folks are reacting out of anger, could there be the underlying fear that their viewpoint on life and/or people or whatever situation they’re reacting to, is other than what they thought and it scares them??

LLemon

Thanks Lauren and Dr John. I found this incredibly interesting and insightful. I wish you bring a YouTuber on who differs in opinion from you to discuss the issues. (One with integrity, not one of the ones spreading disinformation.) I think that would be really interesting. Also, I wish you would emphasize to your gems that no one of either side should be attacking others in your Patreon chat since you want people to be able to disagree with you. I made a comment that wasn’t perfectly in line with your opinion and was bullied in your own Patreon chat that got extremely personal, and I don’t even necessarily think he’s innocent. There are angry bullies on both sides of this.

MC

Yes!! Precisely! What were their options to keep him safe. What do you think would’ve happened if he’d been placed in gen-pop?

Janet Trowbridge

I have followed several of those attorneys since Depp v Heard and I was stunned listening to how vastly different their take was from what I was hearing from your notes. This makes so much sense now. It’s absolutely shocking and completely unethical. I’m a nurse and have dealt with a lot of psyche patients. The way RA was held was partially because of a lack of resources at a local level to deal with something this high profile and someone as delicate, for lack of a better word, as he is. How else were they going to keep him safe?? Can we please be realistic for a moment.

Janet Trowbridge

Thank you .. in this current of world events and how I am learning or trying to learn ..grow.. and accept .. I keep repeating in my mind .. the Serenity Prayer .. I am so looking forward to the future Delphi podcasts HTC will be producing ..

Christy Aiken

Thanks Dr John for making it make sense. I like to use a quote from German philosopher Frederich Nietzsche " People don't want to hear the truth because they don't want their illusions destroyed" I like to substitute delusions for illusions and Boomers may remember how "Peanuts" creator Charles Schultz gave adults in the series an unintelligible voice, the wah, wah, wah sound from a muffled trombone. I think YouTube could use a wah, wah, wah button.

Its Just me

“YouTube creators” that is what I should have said.

Lauren and John Matthias

I’m in such awe of you both. Dr John, please keep the philosophy education coming - it’s so fascinating.

Jessica Burdon

Have either of you read Mandy Matney's book, "Blood on their Hands" about her experience covering the Murdaugh trial? She reflects on the circus surrounding the Murdaugh trial and its aftermath. I am supporting various True Crime podcasters, and "getting the story straight" will anger people. Proud to be a Hidden Gem who is here to support you two.

Robin Murray

Thank you for covering these cases with critical thinking, research and compassion. The way you celebrate your family while also doing important work is inspirational. I can imagine it is much harder than you let on. I admire how you support one another as much as I admire what you do. Happy to support you all. Truly the only reason I have Patreon. I have worked in the criminal justice system for 20 years. Dr John and the perspective he provides is valuable. Thank you for having the patience to provide insight.

Kay Catherine

Me and my oldest son ‘23 years old “ love you guys we sometimes listen together and have good and healthy conversations about everything concerning human behaviour I am so blessed to have 3 healthy independent boys who sure can see through people’s toxic bs And I thank you and other content creators for being so real and informative You are really precious people I hope you know that ❤️

Vala Hauksdóttir

Can you put the link in here for that one please?

Vala Hauksdóttir

Exactly

Vala Hauksdóttir

Exactly my thoughts as well

Vala Hauksdóttir

The Delphi murders of two young girls has made me realize that people can absolutely believe untruths and misinformation no matter how extreme it is. We are living in a society that has lost their values and compassion….and if that’s not terrifying I don’t know what is.

Livvie

Your philosophical musings sound so true. It’s really not about RA but an inability to accept truth. I don’t think you can separate philosophy from faith. It all comes down to absolute truth and the ability to accept it.

Susan

I have a question regarding solitary confinement. I don't understand what people think the prison should have done with him. It seems he still was a danger to himself, therefore he had to be on S watch. Because of his high-profile case, other inmates would have also been a danger to him. If they had let him out into the general population and he would have harmed himself, or other inmates would have harmed him, everyone would have screamed that officers didn't protect him. What do you do with someone in prison/jail who is a danger to himself, and others are a danger to him? Apart from putting him into solitary confinement

lil

Thanks. Didn’t know about the defense using shady means. Truth is, some people are dominated by the spirit of the age which is rage, violence and murder. And anti-truth.

Susan

Yes “you” nailed it by saying the solution to scepticism is empathy Beautifully stated I am afraid people have misplace their anger in this situation And DARVO themselves In a way The YT channels who are pro defence has done a great deal of damage in that regard People can’t see the truth no matter what That to me is frightening because Many of these people are just so young and not capable of thinking logically yet and these YT are feeding them wrong information and making money off of them Just so wrong And in the end the real victims suffer from this outrageous behaviour I mean people are attacking the victims families and other YouTubers for speaking the truth and facts That to me is the most frightening thing of all.

Vala Hauksdóttir

I don't think it is that different from many other places. Don't fall for conspiracy nonsense.

Truffles

It is really good when you put out a regular podcast. Thank you. I don’t know about other parts of the world but there are now so many ads in YouTube that it’s almost impossible to follow the content

Elizabeth Campbell

This is like what happened with Karen read. The defense put their spin out there and it worked

Kathy V

Thank you so much for your kind humble and thoughtful approach on this case You guys are amazing and I feel so lucky and privileged to be able to hear you’re thoughts on this complex topic as i am of every other topics as well ❤️ Thank you 🙏🏼 Please keep on speaking up about the truth I guess i am also guilty of letting my emotions of anger get the best of me Especially when I listen to some YT victim blame Libby and Abby and they’re families Just brakes my heart the mount of misinformation out there is astounding 😳

Vala Hauksdóttir

This was so interesting! I’d also like to add that some of the creators had an agenda they were pushing. Did they honestly feel RA wasn’t guilty or did they decide on a narrative no matter what? I honestly couldn’t believe the number of people who named a certain creator only to then spew insults and utter hate at Lauren. That, in itself was a huge red flag for me.

KS

Dr. John and Lauren Tonight listening to this discussion I’m saddened to know this case has changed things in you to become hesitate where there was no great need before Delphi. To find a different demographic, hostile and unreasonable expression of differing views coming directly at the victims and yourselves is totally undue. This talk tonight is so compelling, thought provoking, and really has my mind engaged. I’ve taken three pages of notes and started pulling out my books to read and to write my thoughts down to add to the questions and direction Dr. John is going. The comparison of the world, forest, and skeptic … clearly drew the path to understanding for me. So many quotes i wrote down now my fingers feel sore. I’ll leave you with my gratitude for bringing a voice from inside the courtroom. Your dual experience, in each profession you work, is so essential to whole of justice. Without truth and understanding skepticism thrives. “What is a solution to Skepticism? Is Empathy. Listen to people. Hear them. They aren’t going to tell you everything you want to hear but they will tell you enough. Believe them. “…….Dr. John I send best wishes and blessings for a wonderful Thanksgiving this week. 🕊️ ❤️ 💎

Terrie

I e been watching the news from the area and yes it’s a very violent place. Teachers, LE and judges involved with luring of minors by social media, drug rings and officers being shot. Many very violent people being arrested which is good.

Trial Junkie

No evidence of anything like that.

Truffles

ICU nurse here and very observant. John was sitting there whilst you were talking just reading the screen and the look on his face. It was terrible some of the comments and thoughts

Kaz

So glad you were able to go decompress from Delphi in Disney. It is my happy place for sure and I’m sure your son really enjoyed spending time with you after you’d been away for so long. Excellent episode as always. I too am always here for some geeking out. Anyone who doesn’t want in depth coverage and analysis can go enjoy any of the other true crime channels that produce mostly short form content.

Marmalade's Mom

Fascinating. Thank you.

Jay Smith

Fantastic way to top off my weekend. Thanks Lauren and John. I was completely captivated. Glad you’ve had some time to decompress and spend some time with your little man. Have a great week ahead. Hope all gems 💎 are going well also!

JenAus

Murder sheet had a few episodes back in June or July about Secret message threads showing some collaboration and intent with regards to information spreading and money raising etc Worth listening to understand some other complex angles and motivations

Tad Auty

Also Lauren’s information was different than many others because she didn’t have an agenda. Lauren’s information followed the pool notes for each day. They should be asking why other creators were adding things that weren’t in the daily pool notes.

Nicole

Really looking forward to the upcoming podcasts exploring these questions in depth!

Cat Lady

The toxicity, misinformation, disinformation, and tension was very palpable. I really appreciate the safe place that you guys created for those of us who could see through all of that and just wanted true information from court. Thank you so much for discussing this with us here on Patreon but in my opinion it’s only safe to talk about it here. This case is so different and these people aren’t the simple trolls that are normally online. I appreciate you both so much and have been keeping you both in my thoughts and prayers. 🙏🏼🤍

Nicole

Thanks for covering this case I appreciate your work. Please keep geeking out ❤️❤️

Dianna Burnthorn

Again, super hyped for the new series you guys will be doing! I love the philosophical aspects of your show, and it keeps me coming back for more! I'm glad you guys have had time to decompress; thank you for all you do!

Ausha Bock

So good to hear y’all this evening! I am sorry Dr. John when you get hateful emails. When, I hear you two laughing together it makes me feel so good! Yes, trees fall and make loud sounds when no one is there!🙂 Our justice system still works. The truth prevailed! Safe travels Lauren ❤️

Carolyn Wright

Sometimes the truth sets you free. It unburdens a heavy load!

Kay Louise

You need a tee shirt that says "Geek Out"

Bonnie Schoeneman-Dilley

Anonymous must have selective listening. John one of the things I like and appreciate about you is your compassion and unbiased view on cases. You both invite respectful debate, healthy conversation that benefits all of us that want to learn from each other.

Bonnie Schoeneman-Dilley

Thank y’all for coming on. I cannot imagine what you are carrying now Lauren after the trial. Praying you can decompress and thankfully you have a husband that can be such a huge support. I bet your son and Dr John were so excited to see you! Enjoy your family ❤️ safe travels

Marnie Norris

I wrote the above before you talked about the skeptics because I feel so protective of you. The question isn’t did the tree make a sound but why are you asking if it made a sound ! I love this.

Samantha Hawkins

Wouldn’t you want something in exchange for the confession and didn’t he come out of psychosis and profess his innocence again? I love Dr Johns evaluations.

Trial Junkie

We do live in a crazy world. I feel like I landed on a foreign planet

Bonnie Schoeneman-Dilley

Oh thank you for calling out the “if a tree falls in the woods “ question. I’ve always found that one annoying lol. I like a bit of epistemology- and healthy skepticism- but it’s another thing to completely ignore repeated confessions from a guy who matched the description, was seen there by witnesses etc That’s kind of the opposite of healthy skepticism. I prefer to take people at their word until there’s evidence to be more skeptical- but I have found that people , even if they are deceptive, if they’re not psychopaths they do tend to fess uo eventually.

Tad Auty

It is so sad and sick to say that Libby and Abby’s family profitted from their deaths. These people have suffered such loss. The worst is those who accuse Libby’s sister of murdering the girls!

Kay Louise

Dr. John you are so on point about anger and how it blunting other emotions

Bonnie Schoeneman-Dilley

If is terrible to feel fear to the point you feel unsafe to express yourself

Bonnie Schoeneman-Dilley

Hi both Thank you again for your amazing coverage & your courage. I listened to Lauren’s coverage, Murder Sheet, Nancy, and I also listened to the other side, Defence Diaries. You’re so right the disinformation was insane. Something I’ve learned is that when people are so deeply entrenched in their position it doesn’t matter what evidence you present they simply will not believe it. I appreciate the deep analysis of Dr John & Lauren’s impartial verbatim notes. You won’t ever be cancelled you have so many sensible people who appreciate your podcasts & I for one believe in the good in people. I’m glad you’ve had a break, you deserved it. Lots of love from a dark, wet & cold England Sammy xxx. Ps The Consult is a very good podcast for facts too x Pps Torchaured lol xx

Samantha Hawkins

Following the case since 2017 and seeing the YouTube debacle unfold, I thought you were you were just one of the defense misinformation team. You were honestly wanting the truth out and I appreciate that. You are right to be scared of these people. The vitriol is awful and never ending . I’m so glad to see a brave, honest YouTuber. You give me hope that there are still good people on this platform. Thank you for all you did!!!!

JoAnn Sands

Bonnie the defense was feeding people before and during the trial. People were stirred up intentionally. Were they paid? I don’t know. The stories of whatever they could cook up to change people’s minds against common sense, evidence snd confession. The defense was desperate to distract with making RA as a victim.

Kay Louise

Lauren you did an amazing job reporting unbiased on this case. I cannot understand why you were attacked, threatened. It made no sense. How did the defense use you tubers? Was the defense using you tube creators? Sounds like that is what you are saying

Bonnie Schoeneman-Dilley

I do not understand the source, motivation or who is was responsible for the misinformation in this case.

Bonnie Schoeneman-Dilley

With Delphi pro RA people (even before all the evidence) did not go on logic but on emotion but I think it was fed by the defense and who the defense got to spin it. I think Judge Gull shut it all out in her court. RA got a fair trial. Did a tree fall, did it make noise? Yes but no body heard it! No one wanted to hear RA!

Kay Louise

Love you two Matthias's!

Bonnie Schoeneman-Dilley

Hi John!

Bonnie Schoeneman-Dilley

Love Disney and happy you and Banks got away

Bonnie Schoeneman-Dilley

I think Indiana is a scarey place. The state has so many crooked LE and Judges as well as gangs. I was shocked at what I’ve seen on YouTube and I’ve decided I don’t ever want to go there. They have a lot of corrupt public officials who are being arrested for pedophilia too.

Trial Junkie

I’m so happy you are home!!

Debe Hale

No discussion with debate. People take it personally and with offensiveness toward anything or anyone who doesn’t agree with them.

Kay Louise

Lauren - you and John gave both showed so much courage covering this case and doing truly important reporting. I can’t imagine the tension you had to try to put aside to do you work on this case. It sounded toxic AF. I’m sooooooo glad you went to Disneyland and had some good magical time with your little one- maybe a good thing to have a little distance from the case before you then get back to John and recover. Look after yourselves- dynamic duo - but you really both showed guts and grit in this coverage.

Tad Auty

I saw this in the Karen Reed trial. Idk whether she is guilty or not but I felt for the witnesses.

Trucrimegirl

Fear!

Kay Louise

Good you took time for the two of you.

Trucrimegirl

So glad you got some time away with your kiddo! ❤️

Jen Healy Pockrus

Hello Dr. John and Lauren! Lauren glad you got some away time with your little guy!

Kay Louise

Hello I hope your resting

Trial Junkie

So excited for this

Laura Biddle