Patreon Exclusive: Madison Wisconsin Female School Shooter - What went wrong?
Added 2024-12-19 00:00:00 +0000 UTCThe so-called Manifesto alleged to be written by the shooter is discussed in this Patreon exclusive podcast episode. It is attached for a full read below.
Comments
Wow there is so much more to this story than we are seeing in this Manifesto. The deep hate she feels wasn’t born in a day, month or a few years. I am wondering if she was born with a defective gene and she could only experience the world as a negative place. The only positivity is toward others that see the world as she does, and had done the same heinous acts she plans and then accomplishes ! She states she’s weird but blames others for not paying attention to her. If her weirdness is even a little bit like she expresses in the manifesto then I certainly would stay away from her too. Then she probably interprets that as bullying. Her perception of life is malignant so do we then assume she is seeing clearly what is happening around her? I don’t think we should but that’s just my instincts. She blames everyone else for her misery. She says she doesn’t care about so many things ie no friends, a mother that’s not around, a stupid father, yet they were important enough to complain about so obviously they impacted her. It’s hard to imagine that she never gave her opinion and this is why no one would expect this tragedy to happen. If she didn’t share her thoughts then why was she weird to others? She states she hates everyone although she points out that “N”’s are the filth or lowest than low, but when she takes her revenge she shoots “anyone” not the bully’s, not the “absent mother” , nor the “stupid father”. And shoots herself…the one she is most hateful of? No idea, but I hope there is more info to come out from school mates, teachers, neighbors anyone who can shed a brighter light on this sad soul and the situation. I definitely feel Lougi brought this to a head. He was her out in making it all OK and her biggest cry for attention. What a shame so many innocent lives were taken so she could prove a point. Which in my estimation she didn’t prove at all.
Jane Marie
2025-01-20 05:34:59 +0000 UTCI would like to see more discussed about her background: (in her perspective) a father her valued alcohol more than her, her mother's mental illness, her parents marriage/divorce/marriage, feeling unseen, unheard, I think the work by Besselva Der Kolk and Andrew Gold really fills in the traumatic effects of these experiences (as well as many others, Ricky Greenwald, etc., etc) Thank you.
GoodChance
2024-12-31 15:43:42 +0000 UTCShe's not here to share her motive, her plan, or if she planned to target bullies.
Laura M
2024-12-29 00:37:42 +0000 UTCI think I have to disagree with you, Dr. John, on the idea that others should have done more but only because we don’t know what was tried. We’re only getting information from her perspective through this manifesto. So saying that someone should have tried more is a misinformed statement. I have a 16-yo stepdaughter and her father and I have tried EVERYTHING to give her attention and make her part of the family and she won’t have it. Having been a teenage girl, I can tell you this is not uncommon. Like Lauren, I have journals from my teenage years. While I refuse to read mine cuz I remember some of what’s in them, I can guarantee that some of the same sentiments this girl expressed are in my journal. And even at nearly 40, I’m still very dramatic and hyperbolic in my self-expression (something I’ve been working on for ages). It’s a very tough age and like you said, the situation is very complicated. I don’t think we can jump to blaming the family or her therapist until we have more information. Hindsight is 20/20
Rita Weltsch
2024-12-28 14:01:23 +0000 UTCDr John, "You never know who's going to make a difference, in the end." Let's all write it down.
Nicole Champeau
2024-12-22 21:13:52 +0000 UTCShe talks about how her father makes fun of her because she is weird. I think she had the sense that she wasn’t who he wanted. It makes me think that he has the pictures of her at the shooting range on his social media because he finally had something he thought was cool and normal he could do with her (I don’t think it’s cool and normal but I think it could be in her dad’s social world)
Abby
2024-12-22 09:21:55 +0000 UTCThe day that the “manifesto” was first out, I was listening to another content creator talking about how they didn’t think it was real because it didn’t even sound like it was written by a native English speaker. I think the difficulty with clear thinking etc. that could represent psychosis is definitely another hypothesis for this. It rings true for me, at least.
Abby
2024-12-22 09:19:26 +0000 UTCThank you so much for this analysis discussion…I was really hoping you would do this.
Abby
2024-12-22 09:15:54 +0000 UTCWhat will it take to get Lauren’s journal posted here? 😂🤣🤔
Rob
2024-12-20 22:39:26 +0000 UTC:-( not that it’s ok to target people either but it’s all just so senseless
Tad Auty
2024-12-20 04:10:46 +0000 UTCYes, no “bullies” were targeted. It was random and heartless. The teacher was a substitute. The shooter didn’t even know her.
Julie
2024-12-20 04:09:46 +0000 UTCTeachers do everything they can for their students with little support. They are attacked on all ends… by parents, admin and disrespectful/unruly/emotionally disturbed students. The majority of the kids are good but the troubled 10% require 90% of the attention. Teachers cannot be a therapist, nurse, psychologist, cook, supply store, special Ed and regular Ed teacher simultaneously, police officer, etc etc. They are leaving the profession in droves. Let’s back off them and talk about the home life. Parents are ultimately responsible here.
Julie
2024-12-20 04:06:46 +0000 UTCI feel there’s a lot of empathy (beyond psychological analysis) being shown for the shooter because she’s female and it’s disturbing. She is a murderer period. Feeling isolated, depressed, confused, parents divorced is unfortunately the majority experience for teenagers these days. But we get through it! This shooter was very angry and mentally disturbed beyond depression. Her mother attempting to end her own life was traumatic, yes. But the #1 issue per usual… access to a gun and Dad took her to the shooting range. He needs to serve time in prison. Irresponsible is an understatement.
Julie
2024-12-20 03:56:56 +0000 UTCJust seems like she hurt so much.
Lori
2024-12-20 01:25:37 +0000 UTCDid she ever get any blood work or see a Dr. Cause she was cute.
Lori
2024-12-20 01:24:51 +0000 UTCOn the Girl that killed and killed herself could you find out if the things she said were true like the dad, mom, and one place said she was bullied in 2 school and her dad was an alcoholic.
Lori
2024-12-20 01:22:19 +0000 UTCI feel so very sorry for all the Families involved in this tragedy
Sharon Ashcraft
2024-12-20 00:53:25 +0000 UTCSafe travels Lauren
Sharon Ashcraft
2024-12-20 00:50:49 +0000 UTCHi Lauren and Dr. John the criminals are deranged I did not realize just how much.
Sharon Ashcraft
2024-12-20 00:49:08 +0000 UTCHonestly, the misery of the masses in the USA is distinct. We tolerate a horrible system that breeds fear in most via inability to retire in comfort, healthcare’s ability to bankrupt us, education’s crippling debt. Children are all affected unless super privileged. I feel that if we removed the abusive system, and replaced it with what other countries do for their citizens, it would bring so much more quality of life and relief, the violence & gun issue would deflate. The dehumanization would lower. USA is inherently dehumanizing.
pigasus
2024-12-19 20:54:03 +0000 UTCVery interesting insights and analysis. Thank you Dr John and Lauren for all you do
Janet G
2024-12-19 17:15:03 +0000 UTCGood luck tomorrow Lauren!
Chelsea Gervan
2024-12-19 16:49:31 +0000 UTCI hope teachers have some training on recognizing these lonely kids, having a teacher notice and take interest in them could make all the difference. Also, parents wake up and engage with your children and if they have emotional issues, for god’s sake get rid of your guns or lock them up
Katie
2024-12-19 15:52:37 +0000 UTCI'm from Madison (now in Orlando). My friend's son goes to that school. He is safe. As a therapist who was part of the Pulse mass shooting response and aftermath, my heart breaks for the community that will be dealing with the trauma and vicarious trauma for years to come. I appreciate your thoughtful and experience-based reflection on the psychology behind these crimes. Especially that of of 15 year old who shoots up a school. So freaking heartbreaking.
Jamie Gunning
2024-12-19 13:05:11 +0000 UTCDr John, Lauren, thank you for covering this. Question what proportion of school shooters face justice vs take their own lives and what is the difference in their motivation? Natalie/Samantha wanted to make a statement yet she’s not around to see the impact of her actions. Did she just want to go out knowing she had done what she felt she needed to do (for herself)? I, like Ozzie Tad, can’t understand how they get access to guns so readily.
JenAus
2024-12-19 08:00:18 +0000 UTCThank you John and Lauren for covering this case and providing such valuable insight! I spoke with someone this evening that is connected to families whose children attend AL school. She also shared that she thinks the recent shooting of the CEO in New York and the disturbing attention/support that the shooter (Luigi M) received may have influenced Samantha's decision to do what she did.
Bonnie Schoeneman-Dilley
2024-12-19 06:30:03 +0000 UTCThank you for another great episode. You go so deep compared to all the other news sources. Thought the influence of Mangione was fascinating.
Alicia Walker
2024-12-19 05:43:29 +0000 UTCThe above case was recent and I can’t help thinking there are so many in pain and depressed. The past years since covid and the whole tone of the world, country and society has been off kilter. So many on overload and everything overwhelming?
Kay Louise
2024-12-19 04:33:59 +0000 UTCI was on Websluths hosted by Tricia discussing this case and referred listeners to Hidden True Crime Patreon. Tricia put a link on her site.
Bonnie Schoeneman-Dilley
2024-12-19 04:30:16 +0000 UTCThank you for covering this! My brain has been craving this discussion since it happened. Also, I was shocked that I did not know about the KDFM connection. I loved them when I was young! Their high energy dance mixed with the cheesiest of goth-y darkness makes this surprising. But I really only remember "juke joint jezebel" because it was used in the MTV intros. It was great to dance to. I learn so much from you two..
Katie Alosi
2024-12-19 04:25:48 +0000 UTCI have so many thoughts on the situation. I have to believe that a new school that is religious had some impact. I am going to go back and reread the manifesto but being bullied and maybe there was issues with her Dad being religious? Lack of caring from her Mother? The maybe lack of anyone paying attention to what she is really saying? Her pain from lack of anyone noticing her pain. For fifteen her words and thoughts are not fluid and disjointed but that is how her mind is. She has anger and hatred? So sad! A teacher maybe was condescending or she saw the attention that certain people got. I do think Luigi had an impact. Where she lives has an impact and how she lives? Kids who are different and don’t fit in are made fun of. She has become calloused and hard but most of all very scared. Death maybe seems a relief to her? She is making a statement. Very sad. Here in California we also had this case. https://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/california/butte-county-school-shooting-investigation/3727561/
Kay Louise
2024-12-19 04:18:17 +0000 UTCIt seems that the internet has helped young people get ideas about a lot of negative things. Before the internet you learned things from other kids at school good and bad, but now these kids have a ton of things dumped on them constantly.Then add to that bullying and parental drug abuse. Sounds like she lived a life of severe disappointment that she carried inside , but to murder others is not an excuse. Something deeply wounded this girl at a very early age and continued on then at some point broke something in her . Then access to all the evil online to learn from other murderers .
Crystal Trickle
2024-12-19 04:13:43 +0000 UTCInteresting. I was a bullied female - (by girls ) but as John said- I tended to turn it in on myself. I don’t know if my politics of non violence helped - Or maybe it’s anger or vengeance I didn’t have. But I never considered killing anyone as revenge- I just WANTED to be invisible. So people left me alone. Was this girl bullied ? Or was it more that she wanted more attention and didn’t feel seen or heard? So the targets of her shooting weren’t people who bullied her- just people are all shite so random victims were ok to her? It’s just so sad she had access to a gun- as an Australian it’s mind boggling to me that a teen with these issues can access a gun. A high percentage of school shooters have autism- and autism is often not diagnosed in girls because they present differently. AUT means self- so it’s like a self Ism- like stuck in your self- difficult to connect to others. And being female , it can be harder as girls are so highly socialised - and they also often mature earlier. I compare it sometimes to watching birds fly in formation. - it looks effortless and natural and organic. But if one of the birds is autistic- they have had to read a big book on instructions and also may have a friend saying “turn left in 3 2 1 now” But that bird is lucky it has a friend to help guide it- and the bird is lucky to know it can’t fly in formation naturally like the others. The sad bird is the one who doesn’t understand why it keeps crashing or flying into the other birds- who will sometimes reject them from the cflock because of their inability to fly with them.
Tad Auty
2024-12-19 03:47:38 +0000 UTCThis was her loudest scream.
Mary Hatchet
2024-12-19 03:43:44 +0000 UTCOkay, tried to listen to this earlier but my Family wanted my time. It is after 7:00pm pst. I read the “manifesto” yesterday. So sad, I looked at pictures of this girl on her Fathers Facebook from her birth to her skeet shooting. Such a waste of life and heartache for so many. I am so glad to sit down and listen to this podcast to try to hear some explanation. I have some theories but I still struggle with the thought nobody saw this coming with her? Safe travels Lauren and I hope you get in the court house to be there for justice for Libby, Abby and their Families. Now to 🎧 to this hopefully uninterrupted.
Kay Louise
2024-12-19 03:14:04 +0000 UTCEqual rights misery
Mary Hatchet
2024-12-19 02:49:11 +0000 UTCHi Lauren and John! Just tuning in now. So wish I could discuss/process this with you. If that opportunity presents itself please contact me. I would love to share what I have learned thus far from reliable sources and first hand accounts from law enforcement, students, parents,or teachers. Although the manifesto has not been officially validated by our police chief. It seems likely from reliable news reporters that it is written by Samantha. She has not been enrolled in AL very long. Her parents married when she was 2 yrs old then divorced, then remarried and divorced again. Custody arrangements were changing often. Her father Jeff posted a picture of her at a gun club that they joined in August 2024. In the picture she is wearing a t-shirt from a band that the Columbine school shooters were fans of.
Bonnie Schoeneman-Dilley
2024-12-19 01:49:04 +0000 UTCThank you for covering this and see you in Delphi!!
Elizabeth Lacey
2024-12-19 01:17:07 +0000 UTCCorrect parents need to understand our children. Pay ATTENTION!!!
Brenda
2024-12-19 00:59:53 +0000 UTCThank you. I appreciate how real and authentic you both are. Genuine plus intelligent.
Swannie
2024-12-19 00:57:26 +0000 UTCI wonder if her mother did not know she needed her. When she said her mother walked right by her. I wonder if she did not speak, maybe just wishing her mother to come be with her.
Cotton~Carolyn
2024-12-19 00:47:26 +0000 UTCAlso, the psychology of the bullies should be considered. These kids are systematically dehumanized and beaten down either literally or figuratively or both for many years. These kids’ teachers, administrators, other kids…they all know who the bullies are. There is, of course, absolutely no excuse or justification for this kind of violence and it’s my greatest fear as a parent. I just think these incidents happen and the bullies just carry on and pivot their attacks onto someone else.
Jenny Solberg
2024-12-19 00:42:37 +0000 UTCLauren, I’m glad that you’re headed back to Delphi for the sentencing - your coverage is quality, unbiased and so important. I actually hope that after a few weeks of processing and normalcy, seeing this through feels something like closure - although I know that if the gag order is lifted, you would conduct quality, compassionate empathetic interviews with the victims families. I can’t help but think of the sacrifice again, this close to Christmas and family gathering and celebration, that you are still seeing this through. We so appreciate the coverage you and John bring, and John for holding down the home front so you can travel.
Amanda Lyons
2024-12-19 00:36:58 +0000 UTCWasn’t the shooter of the Nashville private elementary a few years back also female? I don’t remember exactly
Jamie Ferreira
2024-12-19 00:10:10 +0000 UTCI wondered if you guys would cover this, thank you.
Cotton~Carolyn
2024-12-19 00:09:09 +0000 UTCI wondered if you were coming back to Delphi.
Brenda
2024-12-19 00:07:39 +0000 UTC
