SamuZai
G. Tolley
G. Tolley

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Chapter 80 – Life 61, Age 24, Martial Grandmaster Peak

The Alchemy Office manager’s words about throwing some ingredients together to invent new recipes struck me as an incredibly good idea. I hadn’t done any real experimenting in several lifetimes, and I somewhat missed it.

The Blue Wind Pavilion should have channels to provide me with anything I needed, but they dealt in premium quality goods, and premium goods came with premium prices. I needed junk herbs I could play with to see what I could make. If I wanted to score a deal on some low-quality herbs, the place I needed to go was the Wind District.

There were shops of all kinds in the Wind District, but my focus was on the low-rent areas. There were several small shops that didn’t have any employees. The owners of these stores would sleep in an apartment above the shop, and they just needed to walk downstairs for work instead of commuting across districts.

Many of these shops didn’t open at set hours. They would simply be open whenever the owner was home and awake. If that was in the middle of the night, the shop would be open in the middle of the night, but if the owner wanted to go for a stroll, the store could be closed at any time during the day. Because of this, planning a trip to any of these stores was very hit-and-miss.

I searched the streets for hours before stumbling upon a run-down shop that was covered in grime. Signs advertised herbs for sale, though, so I went inside.

The shop’s interior was a mess of broken floorboards and dust. Old herbs were wilting in wooden bins throughout the store, and an elderly man sat behind a countertop covered in stains. When I entered, he didn’t greet me. He just kept reading whatever he was reading and let me go about my business by myself.

Looking through the bins, I was disappointed with the selection, but not surprised. He only had common varieties that were available anywhere.

"Old man,” I said, approaching the counter, “got anything else for sale?”

He snorted at the question without looking at me. “Everything’s in the bins.”

I shook my head. There was nothing here I needed, but I still considered buying the lot. I could use them for studying how to mend medicinal energy, and the cost of so many worthless herbs should be minimal. The only thing that stopped me was that I didn’t want to haul around a cart full of herbs, and I doubted this guy had anyone to deliver them for me. If my storage space were bigger, I could just stuff them all in there.

I paused. Hadn’t the System mentioned something about common storage bags? Was that something I could just buy? I made a note in my journal to ask about it the next time I was in the Pavilion.

“Old man, any chance you know a place that sells cheap herbs for secondary energy types?”

He breathed out heavily to make it clear how little he wanted to answer, “Go talk to Old Lady Mu.”

I wanted to ask, ‘Who the hell is Old Lady Mu?’ but my man had already started ignoring me again. I shook my head and left the shop. There had to be other people who knew who he was talking about.

I began walking to restart my search for low-cost precious herbs, but suddenly something in my belt pouch started vibrating. I opened it to find the small stone disk I received in the Pavilion going crazy. There must be something that needed my attention.

Giving up my exploration for the moment, I turned and headed back to the Water District.

---------------------------------------------------

I arrived back in the Alchemy Office to see what needed my attention. When the middle-aged woman who managed the place saw me, her eyes burst into fire. Literal fire. Fire qi wrapped around her head giving her a somewhat demonic appearance.

“You!” she shouted. “Get downstairs. LiPin, act as his mediator. Take him to conference room one. You have fifteen minutes to get ready.”

“What’s going on?” I asked why wide eyes, beginning to get worried.

“Move!” she shouted.

LiPin, one of the young female attendants, responded “We’ve… had a lot of requests for meetings with you. Once people saw your sample pills, they demanded an audience. It’s been a hectic day,” she said in a quiet voice.

I knew my pills were high quality, but I wasn’t the only Grandmaster Alchemist in the city, and if Alchemist Li, the man who graded my registration exam, was allowed to hand out three-star gold badges, he had to be capable of making pills of at least that level, right? So, why were people so eager to seek me out to make pills for them? Was it because I was the only one who could make Perfect pills?

The middle-aged manager saw my confusion and snorted. “You don’t get it, do you? You need to know this before you enter any negotiations, so I’ll try to keep it short. Why do you think people are so eager to talk with you after seeing your pills?”

I gave the only answer I could think of. “Because I can make Perfect pills.”

She shook her head. “No, there are a dozen alchemists in the kingdom that can do that, and you don’t see anyone beating down the doors in a rush to talk to them. It’s a rare skill, sure, but there are enough people with high enough affinities or special blessings that it isn’t unique.”

This stunned me. I had always considered my alchemy skills above what anyone could match, but the saying was true, there is always someone better.

The manager continued. “If I want to hire one of those alchemists to make me Perfect Rank 3 pills, what do you think it would cost? Let me tell you, it’s not a matter of gold. Those alchemists have hundreds of years of experience, and they are all long past the point where mere gold holds any value to them.”

This was something I had found to be true in my last life. One of my Perfect Rank 3 Qi Gathering pills would sell for a minimum of 10,000 gold, and I was easily able to make at least half a dozen in a day. Without a fire seed, other alchemists couldn’t make them at the rate I could, but even if they were only making a single pill a week, with a decade of work behind them, they would have no need for money.

“If they don’t want gold, what does it cost, then?” I asked.

The manager looked at me with intent. “It depends on the alchemist. The Blue Wind Pavilion offers alchemists the opportunity to ascend to Lord if they work for us. Other powers can offer opportunities to improve affinities. These are among the most valuable offers you can receive, but they are most valued for those young enough to still advance. Some powers will simply offer a way to live the rest of your life in luxury. It all depends on what the alchemist wants and needs.”

“So, why were so many people eager to seek me out for pills?” I asked, returning to the original question. “Are they going to offer me the chance to raise my affinities for pills?” I was somewhat excited at the prospect.

The manager burst into laughter. “No, just no. These are bottom feeders, not the real power players. They know you are a bumpkin from the middle of nowhere who only recently advanced from Master to Grandmaster. To them, you are a poor kid who is looking to gain experience in hopes of advancing to Pill Lord.”

“So—” I started, but she cut me off.

“Where clans would usually need to hand over priceless items for a Grandmaster Alchemist’s assistance, you are someone they can hire at a bargain price as long as they act fast enough.”

I stood there considering the manager’s words. While I wasn’t as hard up for cash as some of the potential buyers might have assumed, I had several needs that the average alchemist didn’t that these minor powers could help with. I also hoped to compete with my more seasoned peers for the real prizes, like boosted affinities.

Not waiting for me to puzzle everything out, the manager gestured at the attendant, LiPin. “Get him downstairs,” she said, in a voice much calmer than it had been when I first entered.

It didn’t take long after LiPin and I sat down for my first client to walk in the door. I stood and cupped my fists in a martial salute. “Welcome.”

“Grandmaster Su,” he said, cupping his fists and bowing, “I am Steward Mao DingLiu of the Mao family. As you are new to the kingdom, you may not know, but the Mao family is one of the top families of West Marsh City.”

“Of course, Steward Mao,” I said with a nod, “I have long heard of the Mao family. How can I assist you today?”

“Grandmaster Su, are you aware of the duties and responsibilities West Marsh City bears?”

“It controls the Marsh District, correct? Its focus is on creative endeavors and schools for children?”

“Yes, we are responsible for nurturing the next generation of the kingdom. Alchemist Su, I have seen the quality of pills you can produce. If we could secure a source of Perfect pills, it would do wonders for improving our efforts.”

“You want pills for children? Are your charges older than sixteen? Or do cultivation resources have effects on younger children as well?”

Steward Mao gave a light chuckle. “You misunderstand. While your Rank 1 Qi Gathering Pills could be a nice incentive for our older children, we are more interested in pills to help them develop properly. Pills to maintain good nutrition, weight, energy, and, quite frankly, appearance, would all be extremely beneficial.  You can think of these as Rank 0 pills. Only Perfect pills could be used this way since even High-Purity pills would risk damaging their futures by filling their bodies with needless toxins.”

“But,” I began slowly while thinking, “if these pills are ‘Rank 0,’ that should mean they are relatively easy to create. Aren’t there several alchemists in the city who can provide them?”

“Can? Yes. Will? No, not without costs greater than we can bear. Many of the pills will be to nurture the less fortunate, and we can only depend on the goodwill of skilled alchemists to bear the cost.”

I fixed Steward Mao with a gimlet eye, but he didn’t show any signs of discomfort. He was blatantly trying to buy pills on the cheap, and he showed no shame in it. He must have done this song and dance many times to become so steadfast when asking for charity.

I tapped the table in thought then turned to the attendant who was serving as mediator for this discussion. “How much would a Perfect Rank 0 pill usually cost?”

“There is no set price,” she said. “Rank 0 is not a true class of pill, and several different types of concoctions fall into this category. Qi Gathering Powder can be considered a Perfect Rank 0 concoction, and its price is only two silver because almost anyone can make it. Nutrition Pills suitable for mortals, though, sell for closer to one gold, but there is no supply. The ingredients cost a couple of copper, but a skilled alchemist is needed to make them, driving costs beyond what nearly anyone will pay. Rank 0 pills are either ones that everyone can make or ones that no one is willing to make. Simply put, they are pills the Blue Wind Pavilion does not sell.”

“Fine,” I said, turning back to Steward Mao, “I assume you are here for pills no one else is making. I’ll set a price at one gold for any Rank 0 pill you wish me to make, and I am willing to make any other higher-level pills you need at market rates, but you need to supply the ingredients.”

The steward winced at these prices. “That’s a little expensive for us.”

“That’s my selling price,” I said steepling my fingers. “Now let’s talk about how you can pay. I am in need of any technique or cultivation manuals for any skill or qi type. Any books related to professions, such as herbalism or formation mastery, would also be appreciated. I’m not willing to make a hundred thousand pills for a single Rank 3 manual, but if you provide me with mortal books, I will pay for them at market rate with Rank 0 pills. Give me Rank 1 manuals, and I will pay for them with Rank 1 pills. Your district is responsible for nurturing the youth, correct? You should have significant stores of knowledge that you can pay me with.”

“Yes—” he started.

“You don’t even need to sell them to me,” I interrupted. “I will accept loans of any manuals Rank 1 to 3 and pay for them with pills at market rates. That’s something the Pavilion can handle, right?” I asked, turning to the attendant.

“Yes, however, the Pavilion would normally take a percentage of any deal it facilitates. Since that is not possible with this arrangement, one of the parties must pay a transaction fee for our involvement.”

“I’ll handle the fee,” I said before Steward Mao could respond. “Just subtract it from my account.”

“I cannot authorize this,” the steward responded, “but I do not see any reason it could not work. I will discuss this with our elders and be in contact.”

“I understand, thank you for seeing me today, Steward Mao.”

The steward bowed and left, and I turned to the attendant. “Please make this same offer known to anyone who inquires. If my account begins to run a deficit, let me know and I will make a batch of pills for the Pavilion to cover any costs.”

“Yes, Grandmaster,” she said, making a note of my arrangements.

I had several more meetings to go, but they all promised to be profitable.

Comments

I have read other stories with some level of journal form, and from my impression outside the author explicitly telling us in the comments is that it does not look like a journal style at all. The only place where that is remotely the case is right at the beginning of the story, but that part honestly just felt messed. There are a bunch of problems with journal style that needs to be handled if they are not to detract from the story. The first of these is that they tend to work as spoilers, in the sense that they give us information on the future and kind of spoils what is out there. I have seen a couple of times where an author went (and in the future they would come to ...), and as much as the scene might be cool, the spoiler element is usually so great that it completely undermines the value of that cool scene or thought. The second problem is that we as readers by default have no clue where or when this information is from. For instance at the beginning he mentioned that he had yet to get something to help him remember the first life, but we have no idea of "yet to" would refer to. Considering the style and so on, one could practically assume that these are written very shortly after the events in the chapter, though what one would expect would be that they are written at the tile of the chapter title, but the chapter title usually refers to something at the start to close to the start of the chapter, which means it does not make sense to have been written down after. The overall impression is that it does neighter feel nor really work logically as a proper journal style story.

Ninetails

Items like this would generally be handled as special custom orders, and the price the pavilion would take would be expected to be the cost of getting the custom order made plus a premium of some kind (handling fee, fees for delivery, etc). On top of that it might make sense for the pavilion to only be willing to buy them at a much lower cost than market price, simply because the market might not have the elasticity to keep the prices at their current market price if one tries to stock up on them. They might pay something closer to the normal market price (what they could sell them for, so around 10g), of there stockpiles are low, but if not they might only be willing to buy them with prices related to what they can sell them in large quantities, as that is what it would be about. Stores can offer something much less than market price when buying some goods, and this is the kind of case where it might make sense to do this. Anyway, for this kind of setup, the pavilion really should be evaluating it as custom orders and not their buying price, because when a buyer comes looking for something it is a much different situation.

Ninetails

I don't like the journal style, mostly because it breaks the immersion how are we supposed to root for a protagonist that we already know successeds? You could make an argument that technically all protagonists successeds so it shouldn't matter whever we know he wins or not, but the problem is that it breaks the suspension of disbelief, why should we care about the right now him if we already know where he ends up? Also i would like to note that most of the story is also not written in such a way most of his lives are written in the here and now POV and he talks about his reactions in present tense insted of a past one like you would expect so that might be something to think about. Anyway that was my ramble on why i don't particularly enjoy that. Also i know it might seem like i'm ribbing on you way too much, but i really enjoy the story the world building is top notch feng has an actual likeable personality, the power proggression is both fun and balanced and overall it's a great story that i really like, people just tend to focus on what they don't like despite most of it beong great

Or vidan peled

They wouldn't have a stock. Rank 0 are pills the Pavilion doesn't sell. I think they would still have the item in a catalog with a listed price, though, but I'm not sure about how that would normally be handled at such an establishment. Seems more embarrassing for a client to ask for a pill and a new attendant having no frame of reference for them. This conversation has really helped me reframe the place of these pills in society, though, so I do want to rework the attendant's wording based on it.

Greg Tolley

I have no trouble with "there is no market for the pill"; that is a perfectly coherent outcome given the situation you've outlined. But I don't see the Pavilion keeping a stock which they sell for 80-90s. Almost no alchemist would ever fill that stock, so the Pavilion would be left having an item in its catalogue that never has any supply; isn't that embarrassing?

PrimalShadow

Even still, I would argue that the price of the pill in the Pavilion is at most 1 gold, maybe only 80 or 90 silver. Pricing them higher means keeping a stock that will slowly deteriorate over time with only a slim hope that maybe someone will be in a situation where they might want to buy one, which is unlikely. The Pavilion would only sell them at a price of at most 90 silver, close to 1 gold, so that is the price they would use to compensate alchemists with, leading to no pills on the market. A rich guy can of course special order anything they want for any price they want, but such circumstances cannot be used by the Pavilion to set prices. That's why I say there is no market for the pill.

Greg Tolley

> My idea for Nutrition Pills, for instance, is that they would solve issues of malnutrition in someone's body. This has a lot of value for the very poor, but zero value for people who would be able to afford such a thing. You can't charge 10 gold for a pill that solves a 10 silver problem. I fully agree with Ninetails' response: > The "There is no supply of the pills Steward Mao wants because there is no supplier willing to make them at a price anyone is willing to pay." Is taking things in the inverse order, which is leading to the wrong conclusion. The actual form is "Steward Mao is not willing to pay the price it would cost to get them from any of the suppliers that can make them". There are people who can make them, and they have a price for what it would cost, he is just not willing to pay that price. This means that the price it would cost to get it from them is that market price. > As for whether there is any demand for them at all, then for most of those pills there would be some rich people who could afford it and might have some use for it. For the "nutrition fixing" pill, then someone that used to be poor but is now rich could be buying this for their family. There might not be many of them, but considering how blessings and such work there are going to be some around. Heck Mei is an example of one who might buy those for her family. One might envision where an alchemist walks around hawking nutrition fixing pills at 10G, finds no buyers, and then reluctantly lowers their price to 10s; if this was the case, then indeed you could say the market price was under 10s. But how likely is that to happen, really? Alchemists capable of making perfect rank 0 pills should have no shortage of choices for what to craft; why would they spend time on something that clearly doesn't pay? The more likely scenario looks is that a customer goes to find an Alchemist, placing a custom order which includes some nutrition fixing pills. It is rare for the Alchemist to be asked to make rank 0 pills, but not unheard of; maybe because someone of poor background saw their star rise meteorically, or because someone of means decided to take an apprentice from the lower classes, or maybe just because a clan wants to make an ostentatious gesture of charity. In any case, it is none of the Alchemist's business; he just fufills the order and gets paid for his time. Spending 10G to eliminate the sequalae caused by lacking 10s worth of food is expensive, but it is not like the Alchemist is going to work for free; that is the rate that his services cost. He is not running a charity, after all - and if he was, he'd spend his time making real pills and buy the poor food instead.

PrimalShadow

I updated the story earlier to make it clear: So, why were people so eager to seek me out to make pills for them? In the years the followed, I began to understand the situation within the kingdom more clearly. It can all be explained by one simple question: What did a Grandmaster Alchemist need? ----- Not sure if this is a good way, and I'll keep thinking about it, but this is what I have for now, and I'll try to keep this in mind for any future breaks form the narrative.

Greg Tolley

> Personally, I do like the journal style, where the narrator is allowed to break out of the narrative. Without having read your comment right now and just going by the story, I wouldn't have known that this was breaking out of the narrative. If you are going to do that, it might be worth thinking about how to make such breaks more clear; what are Fang's thoughts at the time vs stuff he is commenting on with hindsight? I'm not sure there is a good way to do this, which makes me somewhat wary of the journal approach you suggest.

PrimalShadow

A lot of the arguments that there must be a market based on free market ideas seem to overlook a couple of the characteristics of the situation in the story. In the free market examples, 2 things are assumed: everyone is always looking to make more money, and anyone can enter a market to fulfill an unfulfilled need. Those are not the case here; the number of people capable of fulfilling the need are only a handful, and an outsider cannot easily join that number. Actually, based on affinity, talent, connections, and blessing most cannot join their number under any circumstances. That barrier of entry to people looking to fill a need for money leaves only the few that could decide to fulfill that need: 1. for those capable of producing even perfect rank 0 pills the amount of money is too little to care about; alternately they may have advanced far enough that they have all the money they could possibly want and have moved onto caring solely about treasures and opportunity, or 2. even if they are early enough in their path to still want to make money - and it is a money-making opportunity - it is still a lesser option for them, neither increasing their capabilities further nor producing as much money per unit time invested. In fact, if someone actually did manage to gain the skills to fulfill the need, they would quickly find themselves moving into this category. So the author's original statement about how much they're generally considered 'worth' (sure, barring exceptional outliers which would by definition not make a market), and that no one is willing to make them, seem perfectly legit.

Stephen Pearson

Yeah, I thought about that, but the thing is, this isn't really something told from the perspective of an attendant. It's more from the point of view of an alchemist. The most natural way to build it into the narrative would for it to come from another alchemist, the biggest candidate for that would be Alchemist Li since he is shown as skilled and experienced. To do that, I would need to move it back significantly in the story, and I'm not if that's warranted. Personally, I do like the journal style, where the narrator is allowed to break out of the narrative. I just don't know how open most readers are to it. I think as long as I can work it together smoothly enough, it should be okay, but I don't know.

Greg Tolley

Fwiw, the most natural way to provide the exposition would probably be for the attendant, who now realizes that he's trying to get up to speed, to proactively explain what's going on... and being helpful however possible is probably in her job description for helping high-muckity-muck members of the Pavilion anyways, so should be pretty natural. Even if it weren't, he will clearly be (or already is) important, so currying favor is another motivator. If handled that way, the interaction might (or might not depending on G's preference) begin to create a new personal connection, as well.

Stephen Pearson

Yeah, he could make 11 back at grdm1 a life ago. Apparently edited though

Arkeus

Steward Mao is really just fishing for an opportunity. Economically the calculations are even worse, because the labour cost to have Su Fang do this is not 10g, but rather above 1000g, because he is used to making perfect rank 3 pills, not just doing rank 2 pills. When asking for more or less custom orders from a skilled craftsman you generally have to pay a price that is at least the materials, the wages of the craftsman plus some premium of some sort. If you go to a skilled craftsman and ask for a handmade piece of furnature, you do not get to qoute the price of a similar piece of furnature at IKEA as the market value. You are typically going to end up paying a premium of some kind when doing this. The "There is no supply of the pills Steward Mao wants because there is no supplier willing to make them at a price anyone is willing to pay." Is taking things in the inverse order, which is leading to the wrong conclusion. The actual form is "Steward Mao is not willing to pay the price it would cost to get them from any of the suppliers that can make them". There are people who can make them, and they have a price for what it would cost, he is just not willing to pay that price. This means that the price it would cost to get it from them is that market price. As for whether there is any demand for them at all, then for most of those pills there would be some rich people who could afford it and might have some use for it. For the "nutrition fixing" pill, then someone that used to be poor but is now rich could be buying this for their family. There might not be many of them, but considering how blessings and such work there are going to be some around. Heck Mei is an example of one who might buy those for her family. Anyway, the only reason that there is going to be a deal is because he is effectively buying favors or restricted access for his work, not so much the monetary benefits. That and one can also consider this as a kind of charity that might bring other benefits to him.

Ninetails

i think we can't discount the goodwill generated with tier 0 pills. it is not profitable, but as RL rich call them, phylantropic endevors are a way to build positive reputation from the ground up. Since it's an alchemical field that no one want to put effort in, there are maybe breakthrough possible to facilitate pill creation. maybe it's possible to make them in batches or use feshly initiated alchemist to partially do the job. Can't discount that adding to the library of knowledge is permanent between run, making it way more valuable than petty cash

mathieu brassard

Having a balance of enough exposition for the reader not to be lost or getting bored with knowing that the meeting room is 10 meters by 8 with engraved gold philigree is a hard task.

mathieu brassard

"There are plenty of products in the real world that are simply too expensive to produce to be economically viable even if they are useful." That can only happen if there are better (and/or cheaper) alternatives. If it is just low value, you just need to find the small number of insane people who would want it anyways and sell it to them for high prices. It sounds like for most "rank 0" concoctions, there are better alternatives. The cost to make an alchemical concoction is materials and labor. If labor is significantly more costly than materials and a bump in materials cost gets you a much better product, no one will care about rank 0. This makes sense for rank 0 gathering powders. On the other hand, the nutrition pill probably has uses in medicine and "eating right", while a good replacement, can't always be done on demand. I can see there being a very low volume, high cost market for it.

Stephen Weinberg

Honestly I think it was fine. He made a small amount of progress and then was called in. I don't mind that we didn't conclude the search. One possible improvement is to have him ask for extra materials during negotiations since he failed to find them? Or maybe he considers doing that but then decides that would derail negotiations and he should be able to find junk herbs soon? That would tie the chapter together. Make it clear he is still thinking about it but was interrupted.

Stephen Weinberg

So, yea, that's kind of the point. There is no supply of the pills Steward Mao wants because there is no supplier willing to make them at a price anyone is willing to pay. The reason he is here is that Fang, being the new guy, might be willing to cut him a deal where all the other alchemists have turned him away. My idea for Nutrition Pills, for instance, is that they would solve issues of malnutrition in someone's body. This has a lot of value for the very poor, but zero value for people who would be able to afford such a thing. You can't charge 10 gold for a pill that solves a 10 silver problem. Herbs for it would cost coppers, but the labor kills you. So, he is here looking for charity.

Greg Tolley

Well in this case either it does not have a market price, because there is no practical sales of it, or it goes to the possible sales price. One thing to understand is that free markets work by having suppliers that have an cost to produce a good and consumers that gain a value by consuming said good. Aside from special cases, like when the good is a byproduct of some other process, what tends to happen is that the market price tends toward somewhere between the highest value a consumer can get to the lowest cost of a producer. Where exactly in that spectrum it falls depends largely on who has the better power in that deal, of which demand and supply is one factor of that power. If the lowest production cost for these are about 10g, then its market value cannot fall below 10g unless a new producer comes along that has a cheaper method. Su Fang when he first learned perfect pills would be an example of such a person, whos time was as extrodenary expensive, and could therefore do with for cheap due to lower wages. In cases where the just aren't anyone demanding a good at the lowest possible production price, it just does not really get made. This is the reason that militaries are not producing antimatter bombs, because the market price for antimatter is so high that it does not compare to the value they would gain in terms of having those bombs. That and the technological problems with such a bomb, but that is a different issue that one could work on with money within an order of magnitude of the price of said antimatter (if not significantly cheaper). The thing to notice here is that 1g seems to be almost a definition, meaning that there might be products suited for rank 0, but which costs more and as such go into a different category.

Ninetails

I guess a better way to phrase it might be this: Rank 0 pills are those where the maximum viable price, where people on the open market would purchase it, is 1g when made as a Perfect pill. Anything that can typically sell for a higher price on the market is considered Rank 1.

Greg Tolley

So, maybe I'm wrong about how this would all happen, but to me, what I would expect in the world as laid out is this. These Rank 0 pills are in relatively high demand, but the people who are capable of making them can make Rank 2 pills which will sell for 10-100+ gold each depending on quality. The only way it is viable to sell Rank 0 pills would be at a 10+ gold price because that is the value of the labor, but the Venn diagram of the people who can afford that and the people who would see any benefits from it basically just 2 disjoint circles. The wealthy families who can afford such pills for their scions will have alchemists in the family, or they will have them on retainer, or they will just kidnap someone. They won't be going to the open market to buy them. There are plenty of products in the real world that are simply too expensive to produce to be economically viable even if they are useful. That is where I see Perfect Rank 0 pills falling.

Greg Tolley

> The point is that they are a waste of time so alchemists don't make them. They sell for below 1g because that's all anyone is willing to pay, if they cost more, people just won't buy. You may want to be careful with this sort of thinking. Just because most of the demand for such pills is for under 1g doesn't mean that is the market price if nobody is willing to make them for such a cost. If most potential are only willing to pay 1g but alchemists typically demand 10g for it, what ends up happening is that said demand just isn't met, and the price goes up to a point where supply and demand is balanced. Let me demonstrate with an IRL example. I'm sure that many people would be willing to buy white truffles if they were priced at say $10/lb; the bulk of the demand is there. But the supply is not; these mushrooms are scarce and hard to harvest and can’t be cultivated reliably like other crops. The result is that they tend to be priced at thousands of dollars per pound. "But hardly anyone would pay that much for them," you might reason - and indeed, purchase and consumption of truffles is a rarity, and only a small fraction of the people who might be interested in white truffles actually eat them. I expect it is the same thing here. Most people might benefit from perfect rank 0 pills which improve health, energy, and so on, but maybe 1g is more than most people can afford. But if there is nobody willing to sell at that price, this just means most people don't get such pills, despite wanting them. Instead they become a luxury product; the market price goes up to a point that there are willing sellers, and whatever fraction of the population is willing to pay the higher cost for them does so. Statements like "the pill is worth 1g but at that price there are only buyers, never sellers" are something of a contradiction. Unless there is some external authority setting the price by fiat, it makes little sense for the price to be there, and in a pure sense it is clear that the "worth" of the good really isn't 1g when everyone agrees that buying it at that price would be a great bargain and selling it there would be foolish.

PrimalShadow

Yea, to me, the exposition feels like it's needed for readers to understand why introducing a new alchemist in town is important, so I feel the information has to be there. I'm still looking at the story through the lens of it being Fang's journal, and he is recording his thoughts about the situation after the fact when he knows more, so he can share extra information he wasn't necessarily privy to at the time. That might not be the best approach here though. I'll think about how to improve it.

Greg Tolley

That's fair, as a reader i don't have the full picture. Though if i had to rewrite it, i'd have him atleast be able to get some of the low level herbs, that way the interaction doesn't seem as wasted you can still have him get interrupted moments before he starts experimenting Than there is the exposition which seems to be the real reason the chapter seems so disjointed it's begging seems to sound like feng doesn't know what's going on, instead of asking rethorical questions we also have no idea why he knows what he know, both can be solved by having the attendet explain it to him on the way to the meeting than you could probabky cap it off with a "why are you telling me this?" "It would be bad for business if our newst 3 star gold would feel if he was being cheated" giving her a motive to help him in the first place But again can't see the big picture so... It might not fit in as neatly

Or vidan peled

Updated it to match my intentions better. I will go ahead and say, in the next chapter he makes 10 pills in roughly a 12-14 hour window, so it wasn't my idea that he couldn't do it, just that 6 a day felt like where a normal production level would be. 60 to 90 minutes a pill, with making those 5 earlier taking 5-6 hours.

Greg Tolley

The quality is also much higher, almost double for his best pills, so that should also be taken into account. Also, his qi is only half fire, which cuts into his resources unlike other alchemist. But his fire seed should even that up a bit. But it's normal that his production speed is less than he was in the sect, considering he had full fire qi

Slycerr

Taking a different track, we saw Fang make 5 such pills last chapter. Did that take most of the day, then, or was it something he got done in a few hours? Or when he got his badge upgraded to Gold and needed to make two pills while spectators waited outside - were the spectators waiting around for 1-2 hours, or are we talking more 3-5? Up to this point I was imagining that Fang took a bit under an hour to make a rank 3 Perfect pill, and was imagining the timelines in the two events above accordingly. Is that the right ballpark, or is it actually a good deal longer than that?

PrimalShadow

I think he might be doing it more for the experience and the connections opening up the other manuals he really wants.

Ninetails

He can make more rank 0 polls a day than rank 3 polls, as every rank up in pill codes with more energy expendure. Also as you said, it's a new experience, coming into contact with different recipes and herbs I stead of the pills he already knows and makes money on. Another thing that should be considered is the connection he makes to his clients. As the steward said, alchemists aren't willing to make 0 rank pills, him being a rarity makes it that they probably would be willing to cover for him should something happen.

Slycerr

The point is that they are a waste of time so alchemists don't make them. They sell for below 1g because that's all anyone is willing to pay, if they cost more, people just won't buy. If the only concern is money, then Rank 3 pills are the only way to go for him.

Greg Tolley

You may want to edit it to say something like "and I could easily make half a doze a in a day". The current wording sounds like that is his actual intended rate, while an edited form would indicate that it is not his maximum output, just what he would feel comftable doing without pushing himself.

Ninetails

I see what you're saying, and I'll try to think about how it can be improved, but I'm not sure how to handle the bouncing around better right now. The problem for me is that lining everything up sequentially is a bit tough here. The herb bit at the beginning goes nowhere now, but it connects to a bit in the next chapter that will then follow through. Temporally, this sequence of events makes the most sense to me, but narratively I can see that it is a bit of a problem.

Greg Tolley

Yeah, this is the kind of reaction I would have expected when they saw perfect pills. I did not anticipate that alchemists would end up with an "I already earned plenty money" kind of deal. His mental library is going to explode in size with this. It also means that he really will want to get his mental library upgraded soon. This also means that just being with the pavilion should make it pretty easy for him to advance to lord. No need to go and marry into power, swear fealty and such just to go to Lord - his plan was to use this place as a transition spot anyway, so getting stuck here in that way would have been a problem.

Ninetails

Don't forget that he could make about 10 when he first reached grandmaster 1, 2 lives ago, he should have planty of energy for making more

Or vidan peled

The six a day number is kind of wishy-washy. He says six a day, but that's a comfortable six, not a maximum output. The one a day in 67 was making 2 pills working hard over 2 days, so I think this is fair. After all, even with an improved cultivation level, it still requires time and focus to simply do the work.

Greg Tolley

Making rank 0 pills seems like a bit of a waste of time, unless either he makes them very quickly or enjoys or benefits from making them as a new exercise. From what we are told in this chapter, Fang can make half a dozen 10,000G pills in a day, so lets ballpark his crafting income as 100G/minute. We know rank 0 perfect pills were said to cost less than 1G, but maybe there are frictions and transaction costs, and maybe he was being low-balled, so lets exaggerate the cost and say it would cost Fang 5G to procure said pills on the open market. Then, unless he can pop out a pill every three seconds, it is actually faster for him to earn money buy selling Rank 3 pills and using that to buy Rank 0s than it would be to make them himself.

PrimalShadow

Is it just me or did the chapter seem kind of all over the place, we start with him wanting to experiment with herbs but that bit kind of goes nowhere, Than we are thrown into the pavilion learn people want to meet with him, have exposition which is kinda disconnected from his pov i wish it was worded better to understand it's the mc talking and that's knowledge that he has something along the lines "as it turns out" and so on. Than we move to the actual meeting which i have no problem with, but most of tje chapter seems like it needs a major rewrite

Or vidan peled

> One of my Perfect Rank 3 Qi Gathering pills would sell for a minimum of 10,000 gold, and I was capable of making half a dozen in a day. I'm surprised his crafting is so slow. In chapter 67, we saw Fang being able to make perfect Rank 3 pills at Martial Master 3, though he could only make one a day and it was only at 74% potency. Whereas right now, he is at Martial Grandmaster Peak; that is a full cultivation realm and-a-half higher. Is that really only enough to increase his speed by six?

PrimalShadow


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