Angel - S05E02|♡Uncut Reaction &Review♡
Added 2023-06-25 15:26:35 +0000 UTCJust Rewards
Spike materializes as a ghost in Angel's office through the magic of an amulet; Angel tries to stop one of his clients (Victor Raider-Wexler) from using human bodies as vessels for demon spirits.
Link to the reaction:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/3kbiwl8w93bf11k/Angel%205x02.mp4?dl=0
Comments
Watching Sofie laugh brightens my long days
Jonathan Hall
2023-08-26 18:06:18 +0000 UTCExactly what I was gonna say. Whoever does Hulu's Subtitling isn't quite up to scratch.
Mark Coyne
2023-07-08 06:20:41 +0000 UTCI would agree with you the writers wanted Spike to serve a specific role as foil to Angel. I would disagree that they "stretched him too far" or overhauled his character.
borntrouble
2023-06-26 19:25:33 +0000 UTCFair enough on the lexicon being lazier than it was on Buffy. I definitely noticed that as well!
Syed Hasnain
2023-06-26 18:10:24 +0000 UTCI can't think of too many occasions where I think Spike would act much differently between writers in the circumstances he was in here. I can see the level of how much of a comedic scene partner he was often positioned as with Angel being too much depending on one's taste (not mine, because I love all of that stuff lol), but it's not out of character either imo. Being Angel's foil/frenemy in general, I feel like Spike had as much respect put on his name as humanly possible without changing the name of the show lol. There are a handful of meaningful/important moments where the character is allowed the opportunity to be the deeper/morally changed character we know, but I'll speak on those when SoFie gets to them. We may also just see the character differently because what's out of character to you may be perfectly in line with Spike for others, and I respect that people will obviously interpret him differently
Syed Hasnain
2023-06-26 18:09:10 +0000 UTCDisagree guys. There's a little truth in that Spike would be different in Angel's company/influence vs Buffy's, but not to the extent that we see. It's very clear the writers wanted Spike to serve a very specific role against Angel, as his foil, without competing against Angel as the main good guy champion in his own show. And in stretching Spike to serve this purpose to Angel, they stretched him too far on too many occasions. Essentially overhauling his character.
SpikesEcho
2023-06-26 12:56:54 +0000 UTCBut I also mean that he's literally written differently. As in, he uses different language and turns of phrase that Buffy writers never put in his mouth before. Kind of like Angel writers opened a book of British-isms and tried to find to most uncommonly used stuff, and put that in Spike's mouth. There's just a rhythm to how he talks and the vocabulary he uses in Angel that's very off from him the past 7 years, and it distracts me.
SpikesEcho
2023-06-26 12:48:32 +0000 UTCAgreed. My first time watching before being as immersed in the online fandom I was always like "this is exactly how Spike would be if he was suddenly away from Buffy and spending most of his time with Angel's crew." Then I later learned how many people feel like this isn't the "real" Spike lol
Syed Hasnain
2023-06-26 02:30:46 +0000 UTCI respect your opinion and it's definitely a perspective that comes up a lot in season 5 AtS discourse, but I think his characterization on Angel the Series is very consistent to how we saw him on BtVS. For all of his character development on Buffy, we saw him primarily paired with her and opening up to her. It tracks for me that he goes into "funny asshole" persona mode when he's primarily with Angel and a new team of people. When he's removed from people he's comfortable opening up to, he becomes the persona of Spike rather than the person (IE who he was acting as in Andrew's "documentary" because that's the image he wants to convey). The fact that he picks up on Fred's empathy towards him and opens up to her like this about how terrified he is while putting on a front for the rest of the guys is very on brand Spike to me, along with the development of how he behaves the rest of the season over time (without getting into specifics). I always saw him (even with a soul) as someone who wants to be seen as a cool guy who doesn't care about anything and only letting certain people see more, rather than admit he's afraid of what's happening to him/feels the emotional weight of having a soul/is threatened by Angel in a variety of ways. AtS season 5 is one of my if not my overall favorite season for Spike becomes it's the only time on either show he gets to figure himself out on this side of the fence without it being for/about Buffy, which is important if he's going to be in any relationship with anyone at any point. Also, I always considered him more a part of the "Fang Gang" than the Scoobies. It just feels to me like he fits in more with a team of adults who weren't just recently in high school whose leader is already someone in a similar position. He's not the leper in this picture that he often felt like with Buffy's friends and that's nice to see. ... Squabbling Angel and Spike literally never stops being funny to me so I don't grow weary of that part of it at all either lol
Syed Hasnain
2023-06-26 02:01:43 +0000 UTCWhen Angel was talking to Buffy about the amulet, he said “as in me,” not “it isn’t me.” “Someone ensouled, but stronger than human, a champion, as in me.”
Shannon
2023-06-25 23:48:47 +0000 UTCI know that there are a lot of opinions about Spike's characterization on Angel but actually I think that Spike acting differently makes a lot of sense. Spike loved Buffy, she was the catalyst for his character progression on Buffy. But Buffy isn't around. I don't know about the rest of you but I act very different towards and around someone I love verses random people or "enemies" and when I'm by myself. My dad who will say I'm an asshole most of the time will also say I am a "softy" when I am interacting with my best friend.
borntrouble
2023-06-25 23:32:26 +0000 UTCI like some of their scenes together. They have great comedy bouncing off one another. However [possible spoiler territory].....................................................................................................................................................................................................................................as a huge spike fan I'm not keen on how he's written in angel either. I agree with the regression
x_Rhi_x
2023-06-25 23:31:51 +0000 UTCYou know, Spike is the only reason I watched season five and I loved their chemistry… but you do be making some good points.
Shannon
2023-06-25 23:14:26 +0000 UTCI wish all reactors were like you, Sofie. Pausing, rewinding, hell even going to check another episode of another show when you're not sure of something. So invested and determined to not miss anything 😍😍 Plus, your acute analytical skills 🤩🤩
angelcakes
2023-06-25 22:44:42 +0000 UTCI'm not a giant fan of the dynamic between Angel and Spike. They regress each other, and that's only funny for so long. And I'm also not a big fan of how Spike is written in Angel. It's very clear it's a different team of writers, going for something not greatly consistent with how Spike left off in Buffy, and it distracts me a bunch.
SpikesEcho
2023-06-25 21:38:12 +0000 UTCGood catch. I always thought the line was "It isn't me" because of the subtitles, but "As in me" makes more sense.
Henry Sowell
2023-06-25 19:32:25 +0000 UTCI re-watched the scene where Lilah gave Angel the amulet. She doesn't say who should wear it, but strongly implies Angel should. I think Wolfram & Hart's plan was for Angel to wear the amulet and become a ghost bound to the firm, which would give them complete control over him. They weren't counting on Angel leaving Sunnydale and passing the amulet down to Spike. Like you, I didn't understand why they removed Buffy's "I love you" from the opening recap. Seemed strange to cut out what was arguably the most important part of that scene.
Henry Sowell
2023-06-25 19:25:20 +0000 UTCPoor Sofie, betrayed by incorrect subtitles :(
HuntingSwan
2023-06-25 18:26:38 +0000 UTCI never drew the parallel before between Spike's state of mind here being similar to Buffy's in season 6 of Buffy the Vampire Slayer. That was a great observation. I can see how Angel said it kind of quick but the line was "as in me" which is why Buffy's response was "or me" (which, Buffy is definitely MORE than human but also human, so very iffy if her wearing the amulet would work). Angel fully expected to stick around and be the one to wear it and only left specifically because Buffy told him to because of Spike (that "second front" excuse was mostly BS which Angel could sense). Spangel is so great to watch together. Comedically, the history between them, the parallels and the various philosophical differences they go on about. I would say their dynamic in some ways reminds me of Defan but Spike and Angel are the OGs so it's more that Vampire Diaries borrows from them (the books came before Buffy but Damon/Stefan on the show are so glaringly inspired by Spike/Angel). One consistent thing about Spike is that he puts on this macho idgaf attitude to all the men around him and then lets his vulnerability through for a woman.
Syed Hasnain
2023-06-25 17:20:15 +0000 UTCThe buffy and angel scene, The subtitles are 100% wrong, "i isnt me"Should of said "i as in me"
JDM
2023-06-25 17:11:16 +0000 UTCCorrect, I was just about to say the same.
Crabash
2023-06-25 17:02:54 +0000 UTCThe dynamic between Spike and Angel is just great. I love that Spike is back for not even a minute and he immediately tries to attack Angel, then when he realises he can't leave he just decides to annoy Angel as much as he possibly can. But then when it came down to it, he's the one who came up with the plan to help Angel out with the Necromancer guy. They claim to not like each other, but at the end of the day they've known each other for a LONG time and can understand each other better than anyone. I'd like to add a bit to what you said when Angel said about the difference in them getting their souls thing. Obviously a big part of the difference was the way in which they got their souls and all that, but Spike also had a weird amount of emotions without a soul. He already sometimes felt guilt and remorse for things in a very weird way. Not most things, not the things he still doesn't really dwell on. But when Buffy died, he felt guilty for not being able to save Dawn before it came to that. He obviously felt guilt for what he tried to do to Buffy in Seeing Red otherwise he wouldn't have felt the need to get his soul back. So in a weird way, I feel like that might've added to why he didn't spend as much time struggling with everything as Angel did. Because while it wasn't the same as after he got a soul, he did already feel a strange amount of guilt for a vampire... And then him going to Fred for help at the end after Angel and Harmony were talking about how he doesn't ask for help. Because he weirdly trusts her and feels safe opening up to her. Poor Angel though. This is gonna be a nightmare for him. And for everyone else who has to deal with the two of them constantly bickering... I mean, the looks on all their faces when they first started fighting when Spike showed up. I feel like they were realising that this is something they're gonna have to learn to deal with...
DazzleFae
2023-06-25 16:53:46 +0000 UTCRegarding Angel and the amulet, I believe he said to Buffy “as in me”, referring that he is the one to wear it. I think that the subtitles are wrong and wrote “it isn’t me.” Angel was intending to wear it, but Buffy sent him back to LA to work on a second front.
Free Your Geek
2023-06-25 15:58:59 +0000 UTC
