Whisper of the Heart 1995 Interview With Aoi Hiiragi and Yoshifumi Kondo (Our Unofficial Translation)

Hi everyone, it's Henry, and I really hope you enjoyed this month's What A Cartoon Movie! We covered one of my all-time favorites, Whisper of the Heart, and I wanted to share a little something special as a bonus. You see, when doing research for this podcast I couldn't find ANY interviews with director Yoshifumi Kondo about the film in English, and the same goes for the original comic's creator, Aoi Hiiragi. I did find the original Japanese language film program that had an interview but I couldn't find it translated anywhere online in English, only in its native Japanese text.

So I reached out to our friend and Japanese translator Maddie Copp to ask her for some freelance help with this, which she obliged because she's so great. And so, below you will see our UNOFFICIAL translation and localization of a promotional interview that was included in the theatrical film program released alongside Whisper of the Heart in 1995. I used lots of these details in the podcast, and now you can read the entire piece below. I hope you fellow Ghibli fans enjoy this interview as much as I did.

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[Originally Published in the 1995 film program]

Yoshifumi Kondo (Director) & Aoi Hiiragi (Creator)

I was able to meet someone I like

In April 1995, when the production of “Whisper of the Heart” was entering into its final stages, original creator Aoi Hiraagi got to see some of the storyboards and dailies. “I’ve been a fan of Director Kondo since the TV anime Anne of Green Gables,” Hiraagi said with a smile. “I enjoy how the human relationships in the original work are very fresh,” said Director Kondo in a dream dialogue made possible at Ghibli. Focusing on the story of this production, we asked them to talk in-depth about the original work and their future dreams.

The Original “Whisper of Your Heart” Aimed to be a Different Kind of Shoujo Manga

--First off, I would like to ask the two of you how you came about your current jobs.

Hiiragi: I’m naturally fond of drawing. Since I was in kindergarten, I used to doodle in shoujo manga style. When I started reading manga in elementary school, I felt like a fish who had found water; “This is what I’ve been looking for.” Then I began to draw with the hope of becoming a manga artist in the future.

Kondo: I also liked drawing as a kid. And while I also enjoyed manga, I really loved anime. I lived out in the Niigata countryside, but I’d often go to see Toei’s anime films when they came out. Director [Isao] Takahata’s The Great Adventure of Horus, Prince of the Sun, left a really strong impression on me, and then I decided to become an animator. After graduating from high school, I moved to Tokyo and I entered the animation world. The first thing I worked on was Star of the Giants.

Hiiragi: What! Star of the Giants was the first thing you worked on?

Kondo: That’s right. After that, I worked on some of Mr. Takahata’s and Mr. Miyazaki’s films. Mr. Takahata’s Anne of Green Gables was the first time I did character design as part of the main staff.

Hiiragi: I’ve always liked Anne of Green Gables and used to read it a lot, but I thought the anime had distinct characters and an interesting voice that was different from previous anime.

Kondo: Well, Mr. Takahata and I wanted to try and create new kinds of characters, which took a lot of time and effort. And since the original work was so famous, it didn't make our jobs any easier.

Hiiragi: Working on adaptations seems to be like that, especially for Anne of Green Gables. If you feel strongly about it, you probably have your own image of it.

Kondo: Indeed.

-- I would like to ask about the original story of Whisper of the Heart.

Hiraagi: Whisper of the Heart is my second series. My first series, Silhouette of the Star’s Pupil [Hoshi no Hitomi no Silhouette], is a typical shoujo manga in which two people like each other but cannot confess, so they struggle internally.

--It was a big hit, wasn’t it?

Hiiragi: Yes, which I’m grateful for. It was serialized for a long time, reaching 10 volumes in total. When I finished writing it, I wanted my next work to be something that doesn’t end with love alone. I wanted a more expansive world, where love and hate aren’t the beginning and end of everything. There are many other important things in life besides romantic love. I thought it would be great if I could create an opposite-sex relationship as a deeply human connection.

Kondo: I really like the original manga. A person expresses their feelings honestly, and the other person accepts those feelings honestly. That kind of relationship between two people was very refreshing. I felt that if people could communicate with each other like this, the world would be totally different.

Hiiragi: Thank you.

Kondo: When Mr. Miyazaki was told to make this into a movie he said, “Typical shoujo manga cannot be made into a movie as is. When making a movie, you have to accurately portray the continuity of time and space. We have to subjectively change the drawing structure because of how shoujo manga depicts the main character’s mental landscape.” When I heard that I was like, “Oh, I see.” But after hearing Ms. Hiiragi’s comments, I understand that the original manga aimed to be something different from “typical shoujo manga.” And it may be that Mr. Miyazaki was fascinated by that, which made him want to turn this manga into a film.

-- Although the original manga wasn’t very popular, was it?

Hiiragi: No it wasn’t. Most shoujo manga is subjective and the problem of love or hate is the beginning and the end. Readers like this, so if you draw something different for them, I suppose it’s unsatisfactory.

-- It ended after four chapters…

Hiiragi: Yes. When I started drawing it, I intended for it to continue a long time, so I put in a lot of foreshadowing. But when I was suddenly asked to wrap it up, I had a lot of difficulty trying to sort out all the foreshadowing.

Kondo: I see. Does the title Whisper of the Heart mean anything? [Lit: If You Listen Closely]

Hiiragi: No, not really. The titles of shoujo manga are generally a little embarrassing and hard to tell others, so I wanted something that people were comfortable in telling others about. I wanted something unforgettable, so I just chose If You Listen Closely from everyday phrases.

-- So you didn’t intend to put any foreshadowing or deeper meaning into the title?

Hiiragi: There are various meanings to be found in the phrase, If You Listen Closely, so it could take shape no matter what happens.

Kondo: “The World Emporium” is also a good name. [Lit: Earth Shop]

Hiiragi: That also came about arbitrarily. Since various goods are collected from various places and then sold, it made me think of the Earth, and then I added “Shop” to it.

Kondo: In the original manga, the World Emporium and the Baron statue are very shiny. I was surprised to find out that you actually have such a statue, so I was wondering if you had a similar experience?

Hiiragi: No. I had gone and spent this money on a statue and had always wanted to use it somehow. It just so happened that I was able to use it while I was drawing Whisper of the Heart.

Kondo:  So such a story never happened.

Hiiragi: No, it didn’t (laughs). If those kinds of things happened in my day-to-day life, I think my life would be much more fun (laughs).

Kondo:  So there wasn’t a store like The World Emporium and you didn’t buy the Baron statue there.

Hiiragi: No, I made it up in my head.

-- However, I did hear there is a story about how you bought the Baron statue.

Hiiragi: Where did you hear that? It’s embarrassing.

Kondo: No, it’s good. Please tell the story.

Hiiragi: When I first found it at a store, it was a bit too expensive, so I left without buying it. Of course, I really wanted it, but when I went to go buy it a few weeks later it was already sold so I gave up. However, it turned out that it was my husband who had bought the doll, and he gave it to me as a birthday present.

Kondo: There it is! In reality.

Hiiragi: (Laughs). But that's because we're husband and wife, so it’s not the same.

Kondo: You were already married then?

Hiiragi: No, it was the year before we got married. But that wasn’t the reason we got married. Do you have that kind of story, Mr. Kondo?

Kondo: No, not really. (strained laugh)

The original manga had “yearning”

The movie expresses “reality”

Kondo: Ms. Hiiragi, what did you think when you saw Mr. Miyazaki’s storyboards?

Hiiragi: Let’s see… Well, the original manga ended before I was able to draw everything I wanted to draw, it left me with a lingering feeling. So when I saw Mr. Miyazaki’s storyboards, that feeling ended, as I felt that they contained everything I had wanted to draw in the original. I was very happy because I felt that this story was finally able to reach its proper ending. As people become independent, they come across the decision of which career path to take, and with that comes all sorts of other problems. I just got so excited when the movie made me realize that it’s possible for people to choose to become an “artisan” in a trade, and how very much like Mr. Miyazaki it was to point that out. However, I had thought the whole thing would be colored as Mr. Miyazaki’s world, so I was surprised that there were many parts that were exactly the same as the original.

Kondo: As I said earlier, I loved Ms. Hiiragi’s original manga, so I requested that it retain as much of the original as possible. Mr. Miyazaki also said he wanted to reshape it somehow, while still maintaining the pureness of the original.

-- “Be colored as Mr. Miyazaki’s world” meaning…?

Hiiragi: I had wondered if the feeling of fantasy would be stronger, or if the story would be further apart from the school, focusing on the World Emporium and Seiji’s violin.

Kondo: So you’re saying the parts about daily life were depicted better than you had expected?

Hiiragi: Yes, I thought it was incredible how Yuko’s family life was portrayed so diligently.

Kondo: I, too, wanted to properly depict the daily life of middle schoolers as much as possible, so I requested that Mr. Miyazaki do so whenever I had the opportunity. However, Mr. Miyazaki is the one who idealizes the characters, so it seems that area was rather difficult for him.

Hiiragi: But thanks to that, the overall feeling is different from Mr. Miyazaki’s previous work. I think that’s a good thing.

-- You said that this movie was able to form things you weren’t able to draw. However, is it possible to draw shoujo manga with contents like the movie?

Hiiragi: Thinking in concrete terms, there are some difficult aspects. When thinking about the differences between the shoujo manga and films… For example, in the case of Whisper of the Heart, I wouldn't have been able to write about Yuko’s family to begin with. First off, I wouldn’t be able to spare the pages, and I feel that there’s more story to be told before it could digress toward something like that.

Kondo: So you’re saying that if you included that, it would be difficult to make it a completed project?

Hiiragi: As an artist, I want to draw things in detail, but I think the readers have other things they would rather see. For example, in that scene, they want to see the words exchanged between Shizuku and Yuko. To put it bluntly, they’re not interested in how Yuko lives. So when I saw the dailies, I was surprised to see the inside of Shizuku’s house drawn in such detail. Particularly, seeing the creation of a bunk bed in the room that she shares with her sister was amazing. But if I had put that in the shoujo magazine Ribon, the readers would probably think, “I don’t want to live in a place like this!” (laughs) So that’s why I drew a house I thought readers would want to live in.

Kondo: In the movie, I tried to depict realistic, mundane scenery, not the kind of room you would see in a trendy drama. That’s why I deliberately put the telephone poles in the outside scenery. However, in shoujo manga, the component of “longing” is a bigger requirement than the sense of reality.

Hiiragi: I think kids that age really want to have their own room. Even if they live in a messy apartment, they wouldn’t want to be sharing a room with their sisters.

Kondo: But I think that’s the standard for some Japanese families.

Hiiragi: That’s true. Which is why I think it works better as a film, though it’s not really a matter of which is worse.

Kondo: I think the manga also differs heavily in the depiction of love. I thought it was fundamentally a love story, but as Mr. Miyazaki’s storyboard progressed, the message of “Let’s look at ourselves and improve” gradually became stronger. I have a version with a tagline that says, “There’s someone I like,” but I’m wondering if it’s okay to call this film a shoujo manga-esque love story.

Ms. Hiiragi’s original manga already contains love in the form of “two people gazing into the distance, side by side,” rather than “being immersed into the world of two people staring at each other.”

Hiiragi: I get what you’re saying, but even so, Seiji’s last line had quite the impact.

Kondo: Mr. Miyazaki said, “It’s not enough if Seiji just says to Shizuku, ‘I like you.’” It’s a line of determination to say, “Let’s focus beyond that white haze and start walking together.” Which is why it’s so solid. Also, I think young people these days have oddly shallow relationships and aren’t able to communicate their feelings properly. But I’m the same way (laughs). So I decided on “Marry me!” in the hopes of showing young people how to more directly convey their feelings.

Hiiragi: You aren’t good at expressing your feelings?

Kondo: No, I’m not. That’s why, as an old man, I get irritated more than I should by the youth of today. Mr. Miyazaki said, “It’s an old man’s counterattack” (laughs). Even so, there were some staff members who were quite embarrassed when they saw Mr. Miyazaki’s storyboards depicting holding and swinging hands.

Hiiragi: (Laughs). In shoujo manga that sort of thing isn’t embarrassing at all.

-- What do you think about the characters?

Hiiragi: When Yuko’s profile appeared, I thought her facial expression was similar to Anne’s, and not just because she had braids (laughs).

Kondo: When looking at the original manga, Mr. Miyazaki decided, “Ms. Hiraagi must like Anne of Green Gables. Therefore, Yuko will be Anne.”.

Hiiragi: Oh really? I didn’t know that. Also, during the music scene when Seiji is playing the violin, and his face is moving along with the instrument, the way his hair sways reminds me of the main character from Star of the Giants…

Kondo: I was taught well (laughs). However, it was Mr. Konishi who worked on that (Key Animator, Kenichi Konishi).

Hiiragi: Also, the cats aren’t black in the movie. Well, I think Moon also turned out quite unique in a good way, so no complaints here.

Kondo: But when you think “cat” you think of a black cat.

Hiiragi: (Laughs). That’s Moon’s characteristic.

Kondo: I said, “Let’s do the same as the original manga. Even though there’s a black cat in “Kiki’s Delivery Service,” when you think “cat,” you think of a black cat, don’t you?” Mr. Miyazaki said, “I don’t think so.” (Laughs). So inside the company we had a popularity poll for whether a black cat or a smokey cat like Moon was better. And so I lost. Mr. Miyazaki said, “See?” (laughs)

Hiiragi: (Laughs). So if the outcome of the popularity poll had been different, he would’ve been a black cat?

Kondo: No. Since it was coming from Mr. Miyazaki, I think he would've come up with another reason for Moon to not be black.

Wanting to make a movie that inspires children

-- This time around, Mr. Kondo was responsible for receiving the completed storyboard and finishing up images. Was it difficult for your first time directing, having all these new jobs?

Kondo: In regards to the music and casting, I consulted with Mr. Miyazaki. I was blessed with great staff in all roles, so I feel that I somehow managed to do it. As far as first-time directing difficulties go, doing interviews and press conferences are a pain in the neck (laughs). But for me, I had a lot of difficulty with the movements of the characters that I should be used to. This time, there’s a lot of routine acting in Mr. Miyazaki’s storyboards, and routine things are difficult no matter how many times you do them.

Hiiragi: What do you think the response will be?

Kondo: I can’t say anything since it’s yet to be completed, but I think it will be a very gentle movie. I definitely want a lot of people to see it. I’ve always wanted to make something with children as the main characters, something like “Totoro without Totoro.” To me, teens these days are the embodiment of possibility, so when I come across some of them that look like they're the world's unhappiest person in the world, it's like I'm looking at miniature-sized adults... So I wish I could just somehow unload some of that emotional burden they're carrying around, make things easier for them. In that sense, I’m really happy to make Whisper of the Heart.

-- I’ve heard that Ms. Hiiragi is planning a sequel to Whisper of the Heart.

Hiiragi: Yes. However, it’s been a long time since I drew the original, so I don’t think it’s possible to draw that continuation. So I’m a little bit lost in which direction I want to write it, but I hope to be able to draw the dream world that Shizuku had during her test.

-- Will it be released alongside the film?

Hiiragi: Yes, though I’m a little worried I don’t know how to draw the characters anymore.

Kondo: What kind of project do you have planned after that?

Hiiragi: Right now I don’t have anything I really want or don’t want to draw. During my day-to-day life, when I’m watching movies or reading books, I’m hoping that I’ll think, “I want to draw something like this,” and it will take shape from there.

Kondo: I look forward to your future creations.

Hiiragi: Thank you. I’m looking forward to the completed film.