Bluegrass & Clawhammer vs TRADITIONAL Banjo

I believe it's called 'gate-keeping' the definition I found online is "the activity of controlling, and usually limiting, general access to something." It seems a whole bunch of people have a very defined idea of old time music and are now guarding the gates from any 'trespassers' who defy their beliefs. I think of old time music as American folk music played and passed down by folk from my ill-defined time of 'back-a-day' as opposed to fiddle, banjo, guitar and double bass played exactly the same way from person to person until the end of time. But as a Brit, what do I really know about American culture?

Bobby Banks

In that Championship which I never been too--planned to a couple times but either I got sick, they had a disaster one year where the plumbing collapsed, we moved to West Palm from Miami the weekend it was and I was going to leave my wife alone the first weekend in a new house, etc. You make good music, you think about it, you help other people not just play it, but think about it in meaningful ways, you sing and play from your heart and that is hard to do. Dont let anyone worry. If you care a lot about things that are important you do tend to offend people who do not value their lives well enough to live it strongly'

Tony Thomas

Well Clifton, maybe more of us need that kind of Ostracism if we are going to end up making music and having the character that you have. Seems people want to feel good by making others feel bad or draw some line around things and kick people out. People made what we call old time music a thousand different ways, too many of which are lost, and then one or two ways that happen to have caught on are consecreted, but in sharp imitation, borrowing george's term, rather than real emulation. You ought to get George's permission to post that piece he has about this here.

Tony Thomas

You're right, Tony. And I do sincerely apologize if my words sometimes come out bitter, betraying my own ignorance, bias and wounded ego. Understand that I faced extreme ostracism and exclusion from just about every musical scene I have ever tried to participate in: from my earliest days of picking in South Carolina (where I first encountered hostility at a bluegrass music shop) and Florida (where, at the age of 16, I was disqualified from the Florida Old Time Music Championship because the judges proclaimed I "did not play old time") to my immediate post-Army years in North Carolina, Tennessee, Virginia and West Virginia where my playing and singing were generally despised by the "Old Time" royalty. At Appalachian State University one music professor actually gave me a D in his Advanced Appalachian Strings class...

Clifton Hicks

I have commented too much here, but I cannot stand how if someone does not like or play one kind of music, they have to denigrate other kinds of music and flick fairly ignorant stereotypes about other people's music. I play bluegrass every single week and often find more from traditional black origined Southern music in the bluegrass people play around here and more of the sense of innovation and swing that drew me to old time music when I was a teenager 55 years ago, than some of the old time revivalists I pick with. Music is a good thing and we all find different paths to follow. LOL one of the greatest old time revivalit banjoists and fiddlers someone now passed away who has been at the center of this stuff since the 1950s whose name all of you would recognize told me if he had been fast enough to be a great bluegrass banjo player in the 50s he never would have done so much old time, It is all fruit from the same vine and tastes sweet enjoy

Tony Thomas

That's hardly true, Earl left Flat and Scruggs because he wanted to play a multiplicity of music including Rock and Folk and Blues. Musicians I know of all stripes who had the opportunity to spend time with Earl say Earl had this vast interest in anything that could be played on the banjo in any style while still remembering old time tunes his neighbors played when he was a kid in the 20s and 30s. Bela fleck talks about Earl being one of his biggest encouragers and picking along with Bela on some of his far out tunes when Bela would come to visit.'

Tony Thomas

I still haven't perfected Dueling Banjos in my own 'style' yet, though I refuse to play it by myself. If someone wants to hear it, they've got to duel me!

Bobby Banks

Guess that's me screwed then haha!

Bobby Banks

Every word was true. I believe it traces to people wanting a ‘cover’ of a tune played by Earl. I think even Earl ended up trapped by his own success and was confined to what was expected.

R. C. Goad

Thank you, Clifton, for approaching this topic. I'm obcessed with playing traditional style banjo and learning about it's history. Most of my music friends are less than enamored with this style of banjo. They wanna know when I'm going to learn to play "Dueling Banjos" and start cranking out bluegrass rolls. My jam group is hooked on playing the Beatles, Pink Floyd, the Eagles ... you get my drift. I'm having a bit of a quandary finding people to play music with here. I've noticed many of my favorite non-bluegrass/traditional/contemporary folk banjo players play and sing alone, or play and sing with one other person. What are your thoughts on playing this style with other people? Thoughts on playing and singing alone? I've been playing a year and 9 months.

Banjo Jane

Micheál Mac Labhrás

Bill is perhaps the most syncopated banjoist I have ever heard. I tried long and hard to emulate his "Look Down this Lonesome Road" and his "Morphine" but the heavy, interrupted rhythms he uses just don't come out of me the right way.

Clifton Hicks

Any particular style, or really here we have the approaches of specific players, involves narrowing the range of an instrument to what that style is. I've played Bill Corbett's recordings for a friend who is an experienced jazz musician who remarked at the expression that Banjo Bill gets out of a fairly limited musical range, and the richness of the inner expression and rhythmic expression.

Tony Thomas

I dont find anyting wrong with music being non traditional. I happen to like traditional music and traditional banjo playing and play it. I adore Jazz which is not a traditional music and is increasingly a music that requires an intense level of acquaintaince with formal musical theory and professional level practice and study.

Tony Thomas

To me bluegrass banjo while based on traditional banjo playing in its early days is really a product of professional show business performance and has extremely strong roots in the three and four finger banjo styles correctly called guitar banjo but known as classic banjo incorrectly now, which was strong among players in the area Earl grew up in, players who were friends of his parents and who he saw picking banjo on front porches near his home. People I know who have spoken with Earl about the inspiration for some of his early pieces speak of a wide ranging inspiration from blues players ike blind boy fuller, to the instrumentals of swing jazz musician, and a profound recognition of the degree that ragtime contributed a lot to his sense of the banjo. I adore Bluegrass banjo, especially Earl and J D Crowe and Eddie Addocks, but realize it requires the level of practice, musical education, and dedication that most professional musics require. I honor bluegrass banjo by playing guitar with bluegrass muscians I pick with mostly around here .

Tony Thomas

The extreme fad of Round Peake, a local style played by a few players seems to overwhelm interest and knowledge uin the great multiplicity of styles and practices of old time banjo players that used to be a rich part of the old time community, players like bill Cornett, the Sextons, George Gibson, Din Roberts, Boggs, Roscoe Holcomb, all the Black players for Carolina and Virginia, Pete steele who I adored since I was about 14, etc, have disappeared from the knowledge of a whole layer of old time banjo players,

Tony Thomas