[PSA] On Social Menu Performance: Effect of Mods, Packs & Patches
Added 2024-03-27 22:54:02 +0000 UTCHere, I am defining 'social menu performance' as in, speed / quickness between you clicking another sim and the pie menus opening.
Note that I am making simplifications here and am not a computer engineer or the best person to talk about this. But because of a lot of posts and questions about this especially since the pre-Crystal Creations PATCH, I will explain it as well as I can and as far as it is relevant to my craft of making mods and relevant to your results in game re. slowness of menus.
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When and what can make TS4 social menu performance worse:
At every new EA patch, performance might get worse, because of the added running simulation features.
At every new pack or expansion you install, workload WILL get worse, because of the added running simulation features AND interactions - then potentially causing performance to get worse.
At every mod with Sim interactions that you add, workload WILL get worse, because of the added running simulation features AND interactions. - then potentially causing performance to get worse.
Whether you NOTICE those performance changes or NOT depends on:
How powerful your machine is.
If I am performant enough to make 10 pizzas an hour, and you used to ask me to make 1 an hour, but now ask me to make 3 an hour, I'll still be able to make all of them in the same time frame. Hence, the workload change is NOT visible on performance, no delay happens.How many other demands exist on performance (number of packs, number of heavy mods, number of running programs).
If there are increasing amounts of clients asking me to make more and more pizzas in that same hour, eventually I won't be able to do it in an hour and it'll spill over because workload is more than my possible hourly performance. A delay is suddenly visible.
So what can modders do to help performance?:
Not much!
* limit the amount of interactions they add in the game and be wise about their tests, by considering what's worth a feature and what's not (that's a tough compromise always!);
limit the amount of background running Simulation features (which is basically counter productive half the time... we observe this in EA's stuff too, where they have to very strictly limit it, such as milestones tracking only for the current played household)
* make their bigger mods modular so people can delete the parts they don't want;* attach interactions as much as possible to contextual elements that come and go on Sims according to relevancy of context (for example if Sims who just got divorced have an interaction to talk about it, it should be placed on a moodlet relative to the event, not injected to all Sims at all times).
* try to design mods, code and feature in efficient ways; be on top of it when there's issues legitimately reported
I ALREADY try and do these things. I can't do anything to help that I'm not already doing. Most modders do most of these things, we just about all try our best.
***
SO YOU'RE SAYING IF MY MENUS ARE SLOW, IT'S NOT A BUG?
Exactly. There are no social-menu performance-related BUGS that anyone knows of (if anyone figures one out I sure will fix it) in my mods or anyone else's (there can be bugs because every program has them but they 99.9% likely or 99.9% don't have to do with your social menu delays).
SO WHY DO PEOPLE MAKE A CORRELATION?:
My mods DO add a lot of interactions and running features to the game. In that regard, they add to the demands on performance in terms of loading social menus (the amount of pizzas to make per hours). ANY mod with a lot of interactions and / or simulation features would do the exact same. Because RPO Collection is 19-20 mods and people tend to install them all at once, ofc that's a more obvious increase on performance strain than when installing one mod at a time.
***
What YOU can do:
- be SELECTIVE about what you put in your game, be it mods or packs. Be picky with your mods AND your packs. For an example of realism: Growing Together was a massive resource hog in my game and my computer was weak, so I used to play with it deactivated. RPO Collection is 19 mods. You can delete the ones you don't use and keep only the ones you do, for example.
- be REALISTIC about the abilities of your computer. If you play with a weak computer, upgrading is the most effective solution. That said -
be REALISTIC about the Sims performance abilities. The Sims is bottle-necked by its foundations ("It's single-thread bottlenecked" as said by ThePancake1). At some point, due to that, even a state-of-the-art gaming computer will notice lag if you the player are not selective about the packs and mods you put in your game.
***
WHAT IF THERE IS A SPECIAL CASE / AN EXCEPTION? DOES THAT EXIST?
There was ONCE a situation of - seemingly - cache problems, which happened for A FEW people switching from rpo 2.8 to 2.9, which caused extremely abnormal and extreme menu delays. There are workarounds to that cache issue and it is now off the table because this happened like a year ago. Completely irrelevant now.I have never seen or heard any other such case and any struggles on social menu performance in your game is 99.9% likely to be due to the simple math mentioned above. It's cumulative workload demanded of your processor.
***
THIS TALK ABOUT PIZZA IS FINE AND ALL,
BUT I WANT AN EXAMPLE THAT'S ABOUT SIMS AND NOT FOOD PLEASE :)
Here is an example of how it is on my computer. I have mentioned it often because it illustrates well the concepts discussed here.
running BG alone with all my mods there is NO social menu delay.
Running all packs without any mods has 1 sec delay
and all packs plus all my mods and some others has a nearly 2 sec delay.
That is a simple example of a performance situation. It doesn't care about what mods or files or even EA packs add the resources. If resources are added to calculate for, performance is reduced. If your machine can't handle the combined performance drain, then it shows. If your machine can handle it but the Sims 4 foundations can't, then it shows.
***
ARE YOU JUST SAYING THIS BECAUSE YOU DON'T WANT TO FIX BUGS?
Someone accused me of that today, so let's be clear. Hm, no. Nope. Not at all.
I am doing support on Discord and patreon constantly, I stand behind my mods, I do my best to keep them bug free. I check on every legitimate bug report. I Love PROPER bug reports. Because I LOVE for my work to be as bug free and smooth as possible. Reports tell me where problems are so I can fix them as instantly as possible. If there was a problem I knew of, I'd admit to it and say so outright and work my butt off to fix it.
With the time and effort I DO spend on bugs (checking on reports is literally the first thing I do every day and yes I do it throughout the day too), this accusation is rather funny.
******
Questions welcome.
Thanks everyone. And thanks for your support. I do this whole modding thing thanks to you, with you and in big part for you.
Much love
Comments
Hi, thanks for the kind words! What causes delay is cumulative, it's usually the effect of the accumulation of all packs and all mods you have installed. However a sudden jump from nothing to 15 seconds could translate save corruption or save cache issues, which is exceedingy rare but has been observed once in a blue moon. It is bad luck!
Lumpinou
2025-02-22 21:13:34 +0000 UTCMichelle
2025-02-22 18:57:58 +0000 UTCBroken mods can also break the simulation in a way that can result is various stallings so I'd still suggest a good folder check, but yeah in and off itself adding two EPs will make a visible difference, though it shouldn't be from 0 to 10 seconds usually :)
Lumpinou
2025-02-05 01:29:13 +0000 UTCOMG!!!! Thank you soo much for this.. I'm on a strong machine so I haven't notice much menu lag before but I just brought 8 kits, L&D and Lovestruck plus the update and my lag became horrendous. I thought it was some kind of outdated mod and was ready for the tedious process of 50/50ing before I remember this post. You save my sanity, thank you for always being on top of all sims things.
Aêlith NightBloom
2025-02-05 01:22:37 +0000 UTC** ARE YOU JUST SAYING THIS BECAUSE YOU DON'T WANT TO FIX BUGS? ** seriously, the amount of audacity it takes to accuse you of that after all you do for us is crazy to me but I digress. THANK YOU, Lumpinou! You're so very appreciated and valued it's unbelievable.
Kimie80
2025-02-03 07:22:24 +0000 UTCHi, that's certainly a lot! Trying to reduce the amount of Sims in the save might help, among other things, I'm not super savvy in that stuff but people in general Sims 4 support servers on discord might know, if you mention the drastic difference between new saves and old
Lumpinou
2025-02-03 00:48:47 +0000 UTCThanks for this explanation. I have this problem with my main save now - the delay is about 10 seconds! The delay on fresh saves is not bad - just 3 seconds or so. I would love some advise on what to upgrade on my laptop to help this issue - is that something you can advise on or recommend to look somewhere? I've googled but I get too confused with all the technical terms. Thanks so much :)
JJ
2025-02-03 00:07:49 +0000 UTCThat explains a lot thank you!. I have all your mods and also all Adeepingo's mods. A lot of sim interactions added. My delay is 4 seconds at the moment. And playing on a good gaming laptop. But its worth it.
Vwduiven
2024-05-01 17:07:44 +0000 UTCI absolutely love this mod and refuse to play without it! you do so great at informing us and updating the mod regularly, I appreciate your work!
Ashia
2024-04-02 15:45:58 +0000 UTCHi, RPO mods and Sim Info Manager are two different mods. RPO Collection had a recent feature update, Sim Info Manager no (just a change for a broken interaction). Make sure you still have Toolbox and Sim Info Manager and you'll be fine. Nothing was removed from Sim Info Manager
Lumpinou
2024-04-01 00:34:41 +0000 UTCHello, I love the new update. However, I can't find some of the features that were available before in the Toolkit. I can't find the Toolkit anymore so I am assuming it went away with the update. Anyway, one main and important feature for me was the ability to add/remove Sentiments. Can you please tell me where this is located or is it no longer available? Please bring it back if it was accidentally removed. Thanks!
Daniela Vatore
2024-04-01 00:33:35 +0000 UTCThank you for explaining all of this I will check now my mods folder and will reduce the amount I may have. So thank you for all the work that you do much appreciated.
Daryl Mcleod
2024-03-31 06:15:30 +0000 UTCThank you for all that you do. I wouldn't play this game without your mods.
Jamie Loch
2024-03-30 15:52:39 +0000 UTCLove this detailed post, and appreciate all that you do. Your mods are a must have to enjoy my gameplay! So...thank you. : )
Scarlett Stone
2024-03-29 18:58:36 +0000 UTCThe game is so buggy never know if its the game or a mod, most times i blame the game as it is usually the game lol but i may mention i also have 430gb mod folder, yes i have alot of CC lol Sometimes theres a delay in menus sometimes theres not but i feel its more an EA issue. Thank you for all you do!
Talisa
2024-03-29 03:51:12 +0000 UTCWe love and appreciate you SO much Lumpinou 💗 Thank you for all you do for our community!!
Savythatsimmer
2024-03-29 03:27:58 +0000 UTCI noticed the delay gets a bit worse every new pack I download, I assumed it was one of those common sense kinda things. Never once did I think it was your fault, some people just aren't worth even given your energy too. You are one of the modders, i download every new save. I have always had to think twice though cause i know I have to many interactions in my menu specially from Kiara4Simsmods, Chingyu, Zulf, LittleMsSam.. like its just alot of modders i can't live without so I always believed it was a "you problem" kinda thing haha., so I always just ignore the delay the best i can to support everyone and enjoy my game. How can anyone complain with such great additions to the games. Giving you what you need to not throw TheSims4 away. You guys make TheSims, TheSims.
AbrisTheSimmer
2024-03-29 01:09:12 +0000 UTCThank you so much for this explanation. Suddenly everything makes a lot of sense. Thank you again.
LaurenK
2024-03-28 23:35:41 +0000 UTCit just shows how wonderful and understanding you are towards the entire community who doesn't fully understand what some processes related to the game look like. I can't imagine playing this game without RPO. Thank you for everything
Dreamview
2024-03-28 16:39:27 +0000 UTCThank you so much for your mods and your explanation.❤️ We appreciate your hard work and support! ❤️
Mkaila
2024-03-28 16:28:30 +0000 UTCHi, teen Sims who have gotten someone pregnant have been able to say so to their parents ever since the teen mod came out more or less, but many people miss it because the teen must first be told of the pregnancy and know he is the one to have 'made' the child. So make sure the pregnant sim lets him know she's pregnant, and by him, and then he should be able to tell his parents! Let me know :)
Lumpinou
2024-03-28 15:44:31 +0000 UTCHi! Love this mod so much and appreciate all you do! Is there any way to add the "announce pregnancy" for male teen sims to their parents as well? I live for drama in the game and this will add the perfect amount to my current save file haha. The last time I just had the pregnant sim tell his mom and dad on her own, but it didn't fully have the desired affect.
twstedtaurus
2024-03-28 15:43:13 +0000 UTCThis was so informative thank you 🙏🏽🙏🏽🙏🏽 with a game as buggy as this one (especially after 10 yrs) imo proper file management and the type of computer the game is played on are most important when it comes to playing with many mods.
Daphney 🌼
2024-03-28 13:16:55 +0000 UTCI'm pretty tired of people accusing/slamming you, when you're one of a handful of people who make this game playable and not only communicate but FIX their mods reasonably quickly after a patch. It's pretty ridiculous that EA earns constant praise for a completely borked game (on every release), but the people actively trying to help with that can't catch any gratitude at all. Pretty sure you're likely more tired than I am, though. I'm sorry you deal with this stuff, but I'm grateful you continue to produce solid mods, and maintain an admirable level of transparency.
CLSXNerdLady
2024-03-28 13:13:24 +0000 UTCThanks! Yes 50/50 is very good practice! Another important one after identifying something with a 50/50 is testing with nothing except the mod being tested (and possibly mccc or BE) because 50/50 can give some false impressions and false conclusions too sometimes. Most problems can be avoided altogether with good mods folder hygiene and not installing two million things (the matter is hard though, don't we all know 😂)
Lumpinou
2024-03-28 13:12:32 +0000 UTCTo be honest I don't know how you or any other modder keeps up this buggy game in the first place! Those who complain, I hope with the way you broke it down, I hope they understanding better and stop giving you and others such a hard time. 50/50 is sometimes the only way to truly know what is going on specially when playing with mods. Thank you for all you do!
Marion Powell
2024-03-28 13:03:20 +0000 UTCYes totally! it is very important to practice good mod folder hygiene and prevents a ton of problems Thanks 🌻
Lumpinou
2024-03-28 12:55:52 +0000 UTCThank you for taking the time to explain, something anyone should have the common sense if they playing with MODS should always take the time to always read everything before downloading MODS. Including instructions and how to clean your folders. Thank you again I have all your mods can't play without them.
Mari
2024-03-28 12:19:10 +0000 UTCyou explained things so well and I like pizza, thank you for always going above & beyond much appreciated 😊
Simeralla
2024-03-28 07:48:44 +0000 UTCthank you
schla79
2024-03-28 07:46:38 +0000 UTCYour mods are awesome! I wouldn't want to play without them. I do have quite a lag, though, so I'll keep these tips in mind. Thanks! :)
Marisa (gfvsims)
2024-03-28 07:40:08 +0000 UTCas someone who loves playing with lots of mods, just this year i decided to clean up my mods folder and keep it small. with the new fresh start, i came to love vanilla clothing. also, remember to always delete cache before playing. thanks for your mods and your hard work, i enjoy seeing your work in my game !
Alex
2024-03-28 04:55:32 +0000 UTCThank you for teaching us! It's always fascinating to hear you explain how things work in the game. We all know you are one of the hardest working modders out there,and I am always wanting you to take a break in fact!
Sam D.
2024-03-28 03:54:34 +0000 UTCI recently used James Turner's disable packs thing to disable the majority of my packs and have enjoyed a much smoother experience. I'm not even missing the ones I disabled. I didn't realize just how many of Sims 4 packs I find bland. Can't recommend turning off the packs you don't use enough. Will make modded gameplay so much more fun. I only have Get To Work and Cottage Living enabled right now, no GPS because they're unnecessary. So much more fun.
T
2024-03-28 01:34:24 +0000 UTCThanks so much for perfectly illustrating with your example what I was trying to explain! 💙 I'm sure the game is much more fun to play in your new computer aha. Enjoy!
Lumpinou
2024-03-28 01:21:54 +0000 UTCHi, I had a BIG problem with social interaction delay, sometimes as much as a 7 second delay. After deleting some of the RPO mods, got it down to about 3 seconds. Treated myself to a gaming laptop... no delay at all. Thanks for everything you do, your mods add depth to the game and make it more enjoyable. Its a pity EA doesn't have your work ethic!
Dee Pal
2024-03-28 01:20:34 +0000 UTCHaha yeah, they think because Sims is 'casual' it's not requiring performance but that's so untrue! So much stuff going on in the game at all times! :)
Lumpinou
2024-03-28 00:45:57 +0000 UTCThank you ❤️
Lumpinou
2024-03-28 00:45:10 +0000 UTCYeah even packs add to the amount of interactions on Sims and depending on your computer, that without mods can definitely be enough to add delays Thanks for the comment !
Lumpinou
2024-03-28 00:44:48 +0000 UTCHi, to limit confusion, I'd rather not mention it here so that people just fast scanning through the page don't think it is an answer to their particular situation. If you have somehow just switched from the very old v2. 8 and think you have a cache issue, we can help you diagnose on discord :)
Lumpinou
2024-03-28 00:44:06 +0000 UTCWhat was the workaround for the cache issue?
Meyane Careto
2024-03-28 00:33:31 +0000 UTCThank you for the very clear explanation, I've noticed the delays and they also happened with mods disabled so now I know why
Jay
2024-03-28 00:16:27 +0000 UTCIt's sad that you take your time to write instructions, just for people to just go straight to download and be like "What happened...? Why it no work?" Lol. I appreciate all you do for us. Thank you for your hard work!
Brian C
2024-03-28 00:05:56 +0000 UTCAll the hard work you put into your mods definitely shows, so you're one of the last people that should ever be accused of negligence. Thank you for everything you do!
Moozilla
2024-03-27 23:51:05 +0000 UTCas someone who has benefited from your discord troubleshooting on multiple occasions, the idea that you don’t want to fix bugs is laughable. thank you so much for all you do & contribute to this community!
Ashley
2024-03-27 23:46:24 +0000 UTCThank you, this is great information ❤️. It also makes me laugh because people wonder why I use a nice gaming lapop to primarily play a heavily modded, all packs, version of the sims 😄!
Simslegacy5083
2024-03-27 23:39:25 +0000 UTCI can't believe someone accused you of that!
Toni Hawthorne
2024-03-27 23:38:31 +0000 UTCHad to comment on the examples, reminded me of “if John has 3 apples…” 💀😂 but I like the way you simplified this! Mods are a commitment, if you want your game to run smooth!
María
2024-03-27 23:37:27 +0000 UTC
